Tom Campbell: Life Between Lives as Consciousness 9/29/12

by: Tom Campbell

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good morning tom we're going to pick up from her interview of last night good morning Donna one of the questions that was submitted to you from one of the four members Arthur in the UK was how does consciousness connect to the body and you gave a really good answer would you like to elaborate on that answer yes there is one kind of metaphor that I think might might help understand that and runni when I gave that that answer it was a good answer in the sense that it you know it's like well it doesn't really connect to the body because the body isn't really a body it's not really physical so you're thinking about it in the wrong way that was my answer to him because one thing said all right here you have this spiritual realm where the consciousness lives and now you have this physical realm where we live and how does that non-physical consciousness attach to my physical body well that's just the wrong question because there is no physical body you say that was kind of the answer I gave to him that you have to look at it in terms of this is all just data and information it's just a virtual reality that is created through information so we can take that that a little further though I had other people ask me the same question since then and I came up with a metaphor that that seemed to be a little more suitable for getting them to understand it than where I left that answer before with author and that is if you look at look at the video games again as a analogy you know use that a lot but it actually is a pretty good analogy the big difference being that those are programmed and our virtual reality just has evolved but if we look at that how do you define a character how do you birth a character in The Sims well you go to or in the world of warcraft you go to some page where characters are created and you pick attributes okay now you can't just pick any attribute there are some rules on the kind of attributes you can pick because otherwise everybody would pick the character with all the you know most wonderful attributes and that wouldn't make us interesting a game as if you had a lot of very characters that were good for different things in different ways and becomes a more interesting game that way so there is a there is a kind of limitation to your picking but within those limitations you get to pick the attributes and the kind of character isn't an elf is it a barbarian is it this or is it that and within those you can pick how clever is it does it do spells or is it strong you know or whatever it's hit points and so on and then once you've done that character then as you've configured it becomes an avatar for you and you can play their character in the game all right now let's look at the consciousness part of it and we'll see that it's very similar you know in the consciousness game of physical reality if you will in this virtual reality the virtual reality is evolved it's not programmed it's evolved so it started with the big digital bang and I've talked about that another and other talks that I've given and if that doesn't really if this doesn't make sense to you go back and look at those beginning talks please I won't repeat all that here but it starts with a big digital bang and then this simulation of this reality which we call physical reality starts to unfold until you have suns and places like Earth and sails and biology and all that kind of stuff evolves in this virtual reality now this simulation is just simulating potential it forms the structure according to the rules set that defines this reality frame all right now so how do we get the consciousness connected to the avatar in the virtual reality now what's that like well let's say that in this simulation we've let the ruleset evolve enough that it has people in it it has critters and people and bushes and trees and basically our environment here sort of all of that in the simulation is just potential okay based on the probability of what is likely to happen given the rule set and the initial conditions and so on alright so now you have in this simulation you'll have a couple who are going to have a child now you have that in the Sims as well you have couples that have children in the Sims so you know this is something you can simulate you know it's a but again this is not program she's an evolve simulation well that child that they're going to have is a potential child just as they are potential people there's potential there now you are consciousness and you'd like to get into this virtual reality experience game ok you're looking for an open slot right to get in well you can look at all of the various potentials out there that suit you ok here's a child and because the parent a and parent B that that made this that you know that are producing this child you have a certain genetic set that give you some limitations okay now these are limitations again in terms of probability okay so you've got some limitations that's like the character and World of Warcraft you can't just pick anything you're limited with the kind of things and combinations and whatever that you can pick so those limitations but within those limitations there's lots of probability and chance that this might happen or that might happen you see so you look at the potential of it and you say well okay this one suits me of all the potentials that are in this virtual reality game that's a potential that'll suit my next incarnation pretty well reasonably well and sure there's some unknowns to it and there's some chances the way things might go together or turn out or experience you know you can't you can't eliminate all the variables right this is not a deterministic exercise this is once that you you know you kind of you know you play the game and you take your chances you sort of thing so what you do then is that you take your own data remember you as a consciousness are also information you're also memory and experience you know all the things you've ever thought done said all the quality you've accumulated up this time you can reduce that all to information information that describes you uniquely your experience your choices well you can take that information and put that information insert that information into this potential being just like picking the characteristics of your you know virtual avatar in your in your computer game so you do that now once you've done that now your information has become you know we say upload it to inject it into however you want to say this is a metaphor right so however you want to put this into this potential being well now this potential being is born and grows up and in its larger sense it is you because it started with your you know it was your data input that was there so that's kind of how you connect to it so it has your data input so it's like you take your data card you know like your credit card or something you take your data car and you put it in the slot and it downloads your data you know into this potential being and from then on you work out through this virtual reality the experience is that this potential being well have with other beings and other things in the environment that's in this multiplayer game but it's you in there because you put your own data as part of the input to it that's your part of the selection process just like you're part of the selection process in the world of warcraft is to pick how much hit points you know does this being do magic you know what does what are its characteristics well you get the on you get to load your own data so now this being starts out with a quality of consciousness that you brought to it that's part of what you download when you stick your own data file into that beans and now you're integrating that's unit okay and this being of course is an infant and it has to learn how to interpret the data what all the data means how do you interpret that and that's what this infant is doing you know it takes this infant a long time just to realize that that that thing that flies around in front of its face and scratches it sometimes is its own hand you see it takes it a while to figure that out oh you know that's a part of me you know and then later oh I can control it and then it spends weeks practicing controlling it until that control gets better and better and it can kind of you know make it go where it wants to and so on it has to learn all of the data and how do interpret every piece of data that it gets in its environment when it sees things it has to learn to interpret them oh that's mom that's that that's the crib you know that's the wall or the ceiling or the mobile I'm looking at and it learns to it gets the data but it first has no idea how to interpret it it interprets it through experience it learns and it grows and after its you know 2 or 3 years old it knows what room ceiling arms hands legs clothes beds you know it has a lot of of images now a lot of input symbols that it can give interpretations to that it has metaphors that it has part of its experience base so that's what it's doing but at the same time it's got your input when you put your data card in there and said well this is me well that data is loaded in there too so it sees it not only through its potential ability to see because it's in this simulation but it sees it through your own filter of how you should see it how you would deal with those things and how you would interpret them you see so it brings along your quality of conscious which means it brings along your fear your ego your lack of love because that's the way you are so it brings all those things along with it or it brings your you know great quantity of love because that's the way you are so then it becomes a use of that's kind of the way to look at the process so then here you are now in this simulation and it's just a potential simulation and now there's a character an avatar in this potential possibilities within the simulation and the interactions with other potential beings that has your fundamental stuffing and that's becomes you then and you play that through until this character you know gets run over by a truck or gets old and dies or whatever and then you repeat the process except now you've changed because you've learned things you've grown up so now the next time you do this when you bring out your data card you want to insert it in the slot to say you know I'm going to insert my data into this potential being in the simulation then it's different to different you and the next time you make different choices perhaps different situations so that's just giving a kind of a you know putting your card in the slot you know and how it works with the world of warcraft it's a little different view of trying to see how is it does this world of consciousness connect with this world of physical you know bone and flesh and remember this physical world of bone and flesh is just data it's not real the physical world isn't real it's not that oh the soul comes into the brain you know and then lives in the brain or lives in the body see that's that's thinking that's ancient thinking you know the way you know that's why the evil spirit so I have to cover your mouth when you yawn so the evil spirits can't you know get into your body that's kind of an old way of looking at things that didn't turn out to be too useful we're too practical so it's not like that you don't have a physical body but there is a personal connection between you and this avatar because it's carrying your own quality with it and you do that by basically downloading your data into it because it's just a potential being in a simulation and you you know you kind of put your own stuff in it if you will and then it becomes you I think it's a very interesting analogy and it does help to clarify how this virtual reality works the one thing that of course would be different because you're speaking of this analogy this analogy is a programmable video game it's similar to what we are going evolving we're an evolving game you see that's a that's a holy that's a completely different thing like we don't yeah we don't have a limitation now we as consciousness you see are very different than our potential characters we as consciousness or a whole different kind of being than this avatar we're playing on the game just like we as conscious beings are whole very different than that sim character that we play you know it's the same thing you know we're not that sim character you know you were totally different kind of being and that's in character well that's the way it is with us we as consciousness are really very different kind of being than that human that we're playing in this earth you know virtual reality in this particular universe but we think of this physical body you know as being the source of things it isn't it's just potential in a virtual reality game just potential and if you think of that virtual reality game when you're picking your elf or picking your Sims character they're just potential - they're just a potential character and then you have limitations but you pick various kind of characteristics and maybe the could the job they have or some other kinds of things that kind of makes them a specific character well that's you know that's kind of the same the same thing so we you know we think of our brain we think well our brain is a processor it takes in data processes it chooses you know it makes the choices it doesn't do anything our brain doesn't process anything doesn't store anything hey what do you mean of course your brain stores things you cut out this part of your brain and you can't remember stuff it has to store things no it's not the way it works the brain doesn't store process anything the brain is just a potential it's a simulation it's a potential that limits what the consciousness can do you say so the reason when you cut that part of your brain out that you can no longer remember these things is when you cut that part of the brain out you change the potential of that character well that character now you know it doesn't have that part of the brain then you no longer those are constraints that you've just put on the character that's like your World of Warcraft character he you know gets beat up by you know by monster of some sort and now he only has a few hit points well that's a constraint on your character if he gets in another fight you look killing because he's constrained he's won it is sick he's whatever he's had a spell on him you know so it changes things it puts constraints on the character so when you do a damage to the simulation in the potential you've just changed the potential you change the constraints and now that that consciousness can no longer work that part of the character because it's no longer available it's like well that elf now no longer has 100 hit points it only has ten there's certain things there's your constraints certain things you can't do now so it's not that the brain stores information or processes information it just appears to because whenever you change something on the brain you modify the you know the potential in this virtual reality for that character to do something and that then limits the consciousness and how they can interact and how they can respond because they're they are limited to respond within the rules of the game just like your elf man or your Zune character can only respond within the rules of the game they can't do things that that are outside the rule set of the game so the Sims the sim characters can't just you know do this or do that as they will they have to abide by the rule sets in the structure and even the social structure that's defined in the game so they have limitations on like our evolutionary type virtual-reality the comparison to the Sims character they're not self modifying we are a self modifying we're not limited as you said last night to the our to our DNA or tour our set of constraints we can modify those right our whole point is to grow up and as we grow up we change and because we grow up as consciousness we're a consciousness growing up and evolving and as we evolve then our character has to modify itself in the virtual reality to support if you will to justify to premiere what we learn is consciousness that's the sheet morality issue again we're the sheep learn morality so the brain has to modify itself to support that function okay in other words the simulation then has to modify itself to do that your your elf learns a new skill and because he learns that new skill he gets a bump on his head that represents that skill then he gets the skill you know his body changes and he gets a bump on his head or whatever he gets you know purple errors or green skin or something happens that signifies that he has that you know that capability so it's a similar sort of thing so we don't live in a physical reality this physical reality is not real it's a virtual reality it it describes potential and another way to say that it describes constraints so you have potential all potential is it's just infinite potential you have potential but then the constraints mold that potential to within certain limits and the constraints have to do with the rule set but they also have to do with what we do we can change the constraints so if we become very fearful and if we become trapped in beliefs than our constraints grow now that character can't do things that otherwise it could do we can change ourselves and we can drag ourselves down we can lift ourselves up we can learn new things or we can forget old things we can de evolve as well as evolve so here we are playing this game and it changes us okay now that doesn't happen that much when you're playing Sims you play the Sims but it doesn't change you that much okay because no that's not the kind of game it is you're just supposed to be entertained with the Sims it's not really a a teaching role but we could say in some ways it is people learn things people become better players they learn the ins and outs of the game they learn how to deal with a fight or how to deal with a bad job or how to deal with a crying baby you know that's all part of their thing and as they learn to deal with that they may actually learn something they may actually kind of gain from that experience of playing a video game and video games video virtual reality games that are meant to be educational then you'll learn a lot from it if you were in a pilot simulator because it's just too risky and and expensive to have you in a you know a three billion dollar jumbo jet and have all the engines go out see that's a you're not going to do that in a real jet someplace because there's too much risk too much danger too much money so you do that in a simulator so that you can have that experience if what happens when all the engines flame out what do you do you see well that's the thing that's in a reality simulator and sure enough you do learn a lot from those kinds of experiences so you can learn from games to think of it that way we're in this game our players in this virtual reality and it's within a rule set it can only do certain things but as it does these things and as it makes choices we learn from them we consciousness that are the player grow up and our point here is to become loved that's how we're supposed to grow up not to become mean or to become full of fear become little beliefs but to let all that stuff go and become greater so you know it's it's a really good you know it's good we have virtual realities now because it makes it so much easier when people look at virtual reality games that they are their children play and see that this is a similar kind of thing except there's nobody programming all the details here they've just evolved in the sins if there's a blade of grass that you can see some programmer had to put that blade of grass there you know and it's not true here there's a blade of grass here because it's probable that it would be here this is a probability simulation of of an evolving potential and what could be done so this universe our planet us our biology is all part of kind of filling out the logical consequences of the original initial conditions and rule set it started in the big digital biome we are the logical ramifications of all of that we've evolved as a possibility that it could have been other ways we evolved there were choices and you know that happened random events happen you know something from outer space hits and creates a big cloud that shuts off the sunlight and have extinctions and all kinds of chance things can happen so it's not like this is a deterministic thing it's a statistical reality and then here we are as a result of all that you know we're here and we make just the perfect play space the perfect growth simulator educational virtual reality for individuated units of consciousness to become loved that's what we're here for so it all kind of makes sense that that's how the the soul or the consciousness or the spirit depending on kind of words you use it's how those things actually in and become a character here it's not you know it's not that you have a soul that enters a physical body you know and does this sort of thing it's that this you have a potential that a consciousness then operates within the constraints of that potential and those constraints can change based on the choices you make well thank you I think that added considerably to the answer that or if you gave to arthur's question you mentioned becoming loved we'll pick up from last night's interview when you say we talked about consequences of how we live our life and that the goal of this reality is becoming loved would you say the nature of the system is love is it the fundamental fabric of our reality and that is why we are evolving towards love and anything else that is counterproductive to the system is devolving that's a probably a good way to say it fundamental fabric it's the fundamental imperative is to change is to evolve and all of us have that we have this at a deep level there's something inside us at the being level that says grow up change you know be different become more and we're all kind of driven in that direction to do that it's a it's a natural thing because that's what we're here for you see so we we have this sense of needing to improve ourselves needing to understand needing to grow so it's it supports this positive growth yeah you're shooting today which is anything other than a positive growth would not be growing towards love would be would be counterproductive this is why we come into the the consequences and the importance of how we should make of how we live and how we good choices how we how we live in the choices we make will depend whether we evolve the evolve or stay the same we talk just what are the consequences to staying the same what if you say I won't play this game well you can do that but eventually you'll either make yourself useless as a potential Evolver of consciousness or you will change your mind and grow because you're stagnant and your life is not fun and you're not happy in just doing nothing and refusing to play the game does not make you a happy player it makes you a miserable player because what I just said earlier you've got this innate drive inside of you to become something to do something to connect with other people to share to see all these things connecting sharing helping what are these these are processes by which you lower entropy these are processes by which you get rid of randomness and and create content in your life in your consciousness so this is the lowering of entropy and you have this it's kind of drive to do that now the people have this drive to do that often we take that drive and aim it at something counterproductive this drive to become more sometimes gets perverted into a drive to become dominant a drive to you know have power drive to be wealthy a drive to you know do other things so that's just it's your innate drive to better yourself being perverted in a non useful yeah direction but that's okay that's part of the learning process you making a good choice wouldn't have any particular value if you couldn't also make a bad choice see that's where the freewill comes in so you have the ability to take this in a drive to better yourself and use it to damage yourself or use it to waste your time so you're not really evolving you're off you know making money and becoming powerful instead and you end up maybe you end up very powerful and very rich but you haven't grown it you haven't developed the quality of your consciousness well that makes that incarnation a failure not a success just because you were rich and powerful ism doesn't earn you any points you say because that's not what you're supposed to be doing you took your drive perverted it off into something that was non useful wasted your time so it's it's that sort of thing yes you can de-ball you can just Stein the evolution where you can go forward and most of us if we're not going forward if we're not somehow making progress toward that that goal that we feel inside of us we are dissatisfied we're Restless it doesn't feel right don't like of course we blame it not on ourselves our own choices we blame it on everybody else well it's because you know my spouse doesn't do what I'd like them to do my boss doesn't realize how brilliant I am I you know we start saying that's why life is so hard as because all these other people don't do the kind of things I'd like them to do that's pointing the finger outside the reason someone is unhappy is because of what's inside that's that's where the happiness or lack of it that's where the growth or lack of it comes from from inside not from things not being right on the outside world we spoke before of the truly evil acts that we we see in the world everyday acts from history acts that you see on the news every day that are truly evil and these stem from people's lack of understanding of how things actually work and these these acts are also judged by others as well they're going to hell you know Hitler must be in hell this kind of thing but the consequence is that you're speaking of seem to be far more serious than consistent bad choices it seems to me that if you continue the gradual lowering potential that you are a candidate for deletion from the system and this even though Hellfire and brimstone that is preached often as the punishment for those who consistently do bad ads this is the ultimate game over yes that's true now ira hasten to say that you are being deleted from the game is probably not something that happens a lot it's probably a very rare circumstance exceptionally rare circumstance because the point is at least at this point in this game if you have potential if if you have the capacity to change to grow to be different and of course you know even a Hitler or an IDI I'm in or whatever despot that you know that was a mass murderer or whatever if you that person that's just kind of the corner that person worked them into in this particular experience packet when they start over in another experience packet it may turn out like that at all you say some of it is just luck you know it could have been when Hitler did the they call false flag process of burning down the Reichstag and then blaming it you know on his enemies which allowed him then to kind of take over a larger part of the government had that not worked out had he been found out as the one that had you know that had done that well it would been entirely different instead of him taking over more the government he would have been thrown in the clink tried or executed or something else and say so there's there's things that can happen so there were all sorts of a string of things that just happen to enable that we're really outside of Hitler's control it's not that he manipulated the whole thing he happened to be at the right place at the right time to get a lot of support out of the German public because it was you know they had been kind of pushed down from there you know prominence after World War one right and there were a lot of Germans who were looking for a little bit of glory back like the old days sort of thing and he hit the right time and there was hard times and hard times people are looking for scapegoats and there was a lot of fear and economics were bad there was a lot of disgruntlement and people who are afraid are easy to manipulate and then he pulled a couple of stunts and the stunts worked you say so he the whole string of things that just fell into place to put him in a position of power where he could be a mass murderer a doer of great evil deeds you say whereas any of those things didn't come together right then it would have worked for him he would have just been some little guy you know made shoes somewhere in you know an alley in Berlin and nobody would have noticed him he would never been a figure of history he would have been the disgruntled little guy that always complaining and they're banging his fists or something you know down at the corner shop you know and that's another point we think about the great evil people the mass murderers of our time the ones who do genocide and other sorts of terrible things but the major difference between them and say a lot of us you know the average guy or the you know at least if not average at least one in ten guy and our a woman in our in our population isn't that they were exceptionally evil in their makeup it was that they for one reason or another ended up with power and the lack of growth the lack of love the fact that they were driven by belief fear and ego they had the ability to spread that lack of growth far and wide and do huge amounts of damage whereas the guy in the little shop in the alley who's old crumb legend and fusses and bangs his fists down all the time you know he doesn't have any power the only thing he can do is maybe kick his dog when he gets home you say that's all he can do maybe all he can do is just fuss with grumble and make a lot of noises and rant and rave but that's all he can do so you could probably find a Hitler or you know needy I'm in or any number of the of the people who have done you know mass crimes you could probably find them in any group of you know 50 people any group of 100 people anywhere on the globe that if you gave them that kind of power they would do those kinds of things you see in those kinds of times and in those kinds of circumstances so that's the that's the you know that's the thing we have to look at it's not that a night off Hitler was so constantly evil and nasty that he deserves special treatment he action it was just probably kind of an ordinary guy who yeah found himself with a very unordinary amount of power and he didn't really care much about people he cared about power and manipulation and control and he probably not even so much that he that he disliked or hated Jews so much as it was that was a device that he could use to help manipulate others to go his way that was a scapegoat if he could blame for problems and things so it's not so much it was you know dislike as it was a use the situation you know need a scapegoat need somebody to blame things on need some way to turn the let people vent their anger that helped him gain power so there's lots of people who use other people but often they're just a boss and maybe they have 20 people that work for them and maybe those people are generally miserable because this guy's just a real jerk well but that guy do anything any differently if he could control armies and nations you know save us all from from that sort of thing so Federer was not such an outstandingly evil person as he was somebody that reflects really what's not all that uncommon among us who just had the power to use it in a way that made a big splash in history so would you be saying then that that promotion in the cobbler shop that would have been a haven't had been in that situation is he'd evolving at the same rate just as someone who was in power yes he's devolve in at the same rate you see it's it's not what you do that makes a difference in your change at the bean level or in your evolution it's your intention so if you had somebody who would burn you know a million people or gas you know six million people and they wouldn't mind doing that at all but they don't have the power to do it they're just as de-evolved they're going down just as quickly as the person who would do that and they do have the power and they do do it you see it's not the action that's the that's the key ingredient it's not what you do it's the intent behind what you do that's where the judgment comes if you say that's where the the choice comes as far as growth or no growth so yes some people do terrible things and that shows that they're a terrible person there are a lot of terrible persons who don't do massive terrible things they do little things they harassed their employees they you know that they rant and rave at their customers they you know they kicked their dog you know they do whatever and they are de-evolving just the same as they would if they had the power to do something massive on a historical scale that then was history for the next 500 years it doesn't matter the doing isn't the point it's the intent so if here you are and you're imagining you know well what we are we ought to nuke them you know we added it you know where you're no different then somebody who actually was able to do those things and did it and you're devolve injustice aim way it's the quality that you are the quality of your intent is what is what determines whether you Valle Verde evolve so here we pick a Hitler or an IDI on many I'm in I don't remember him or not but he was a he was a warlord somewhere in Africa and he was a mean guy that murdered people by the thousands of by the millions I don't remember you know it's it's not that these are such particular cases of evil that Wells up in our society these are not that unusual people who just happen to get power and express the quality of their consciousness okay which is low which is full of it's all about me and my ego and my power what I want my beliefs and I'm in control and I can make anybody do what I want because I'll kill them if they don't you see that's not all that unusual in our culture we see it all the time played out in little ways in small ways where people have the constraints that don't allow them to become you know historical figures of evildoing pastors preaching hate sure that's religious groups preaching hate same things they're on a smaller level but it is same thing yes it's a similar kind of thing so it's not that though then we have to not look at ourselves say that we're all that much different we're not you know we're not all that much different we look at these historical characters who were monsters and we need to look at ourselves and realize when I say ourselves I mean we humanity look at us and realize that that's a reflection of us it's not that they're just this huge anomaly that just happened and you know hardly anybody would ever be like that the fact is they're very much like us the anomaly was that they happen to rise to enough power enough political and military power that they could actually do those things that's the anomaly not the fact that they would do those things so it's kind of a different viewpoint they represent us I mean look at the world but look at the world look at all the meanness and we'll look at all the selfishness all the what about me it's about mine you know it goes from politics to personal relationships you know look at all of that and that's us you know the nightly news is telling us the way we are and we express that where we can if you don't have a dog to kick then you don't even kick your dog you just go home and mutter if you've got a dog maybe you get to kick your gut if you got a wife and kids maybe you get to holler Adam you know and berate them and tell them they're stupid or ineffectual or something you know that's your way of making yourself feel better but if you happen to be the leader of a nation with a huge army we'll help you just do things differently you do it in a much bigger way you know if you're a boss maybe you just you know lord it over your employees to make them step and fetch and jump and tell them that they're inadequate you rant and rave or do other things yeah if we look at our history and we look at our current and that's us that's the way we are and the fact that some of us end up with huge power and big decisions well it's just more of us except with huge power and ability to make big decisions they're not anomalous yeah the anomalous thing is their power not their quality their quality is pretty typical I don't necessarily would say that it's average they may have below average quality but they're not like rare beings either that's yeah that's just the nature of how of how we are with again I say this is not a graduate school for consciousness yeah this is an elementary school this is not you know a bunch of advanced consciousness here on their last few steps to becoming loved I mean good gracious look out the window you know catch the news look at our history and it's it's obvious that we're a long way from becoming love as a people and when we talked with with Bruce he talked about how the cells had to learn to cooperate they had to learn how to live together the cells had to learn how to be productive they had to work in ways that they were not competing with each other they were all doing their own thing in their own way it doesn't mean that they're all equal and they all got the you know whatever it just means they all had a place they all had a job they all work and they make a whole thing work so you have all the various kinds of cells doing specific tasks and it's all one effort that works together we'll see that's a low entropy configuration of a whole lot of things working together well here we are trying to do the same thing at a higher level of complication if you will a higher order of the simulation okay it's easier at the lower levels the simulation because the choices are not so great yes those cells had choices too they could chewy they can have a choice that to work as pieces of a larger organism or just stay independent little one celled things they say there were choices that were made they weren't intellectual choices but they were choices just the same and eventually they evolved to a point where you have a learner What did he say some of the billion cells or something and they're all working cooperatively together for a specific purpose each one doing their part and you know the liver doesn't go on strike the heart doesn't say you know I'm carrying the load here guys you know I work all day all night I don't get the rest I go to you know lub-dub lub-dub and I have to work all the time I've taken two weekend off you know I'm gonna stop beating for the weekend you know we don't have any of that sort of what about me you know it's unfair to me look you guys get the rest and I don't you know that's just ego and these cells have all come together and they are working as a unit and like he says everybody you know everybody gets fed everybody gets paid everybody has job you know because it's and that doesn't make it some egalitarian you know social you know configuration the jobs are different some are more important than others you know some are more crucial and critical others some are higher paid than others paid in terms of energy the amount of energy they get to use in Japan they're not of choices that they have you got all kinds of variations of what's going on in body cells they're all significant but some are more significant and others just the way it is so we could do without fingernails but we can't do without a heart you know there's there's you know things that are different so yes it's it's the way it's just the way we are and now here we are as Bruce points out trying to duplicate that same thing at a higher level of complication where we have a lot more choices a lot more ways that we can go where those cells they only had maybe just a couple choices they can either go this way or that way or maybe you know that'd be two choices or maybe they had three or something and they chose eventually through evolution of trying to lower the entropy in other words to be more cooperative more connected more information less randomness build up more complexity so they made those choices as they evolved into these more complex structures which were more cooperative well here we are doing the same thing we're trying to evolve into a more complex structure that's cooperative except all the little cells running around here at all about me they're full of beliefs their limit that they can't see big pictures they have huge egos needs wants desires but that's unfair how could you have so much money and I don't have any I'm at least as worthy a person as you are that's I should take some of your money you can tax it and give it to me or I can steal it you know at night while you're asleep and now we have all this stuff that's all there you go bonding and we're having a hard time building a constructive organism out of humanity well that's that's kind of our job that's kind of where we're going right but we're not going to go well at the mambo we've come a long way we probably better at it now than we were you know a thousand years ago you know it's it's growing but it's going to be a while yet before we did it so the system that is evolving towards love because love is the direction that we are naturally that we naturally strive towards it's the nature of the larger consciousness system there's assistance now we discussed this last night assistance in various forms of brought to us to help because the system is trying to evolve positively by giving a message saying look past yourself and look towards the larger picture this is why we talked about traveling out body what kinds of things for certain people it's not the same for everyone it might be different for others glimpses how to body work glimpses into reincarnation psychic messages visions sometimes collective visions such as Lourdes and Fatima your crop circles that you were speaking of various things like that that are quote-unquote paranormal but really our assistance from the larger consciousness system to help us grow and evolve positively yes the larger consciousness system has a great incentive for us to succeed because we are it and it is us in other words we are pieces of this system we're just individuated units of consciousness that are parts of the system we make up the system so the system is us and we're if we succeed it succeeds if any you know if any human being say or any sheep or any monkey or in a God you know increases the quality of its consciousness then the average of the whole system ticks up just a tiny little bit and the whole system evolves by all of these little personal tick ups and quality of consciousness all adding together that's how the system evolves so we are its strategy and not only us when I don't when I say we are I don't mean we X Lucent Lee are there other reality frames as other things going on but but we here in this particular reality frame what we are doing is we are units of consciousness who have limited ourselves to experience limited a part of ourselves to experience within this virtual reality so we can make choices and speed our evolution it's a it's an evolutionary training device if you will this physical universes virtual reality room so the system has every reason for us to you know want to help us succeed but it can't do it for us or there's no success you know somebody doesn't evolve because a big hand reaches down to the board and moves a piece you say you have to move it yourself you have to you know you have to evolve at the individual level consciousness is individual so each little individual rating of consciousness contributes to the evolution of the whole so the whole wants us to succeed so the whole does give us lots of help and we find this help like you say all the things that you listed are there those are kind of wake-up calls you know a little sprinkle water in the face a little slap maybe the wake up but we also you know most people have had such experiences as that would be called paranormal and paranormal doesn't mean anything spooky it just means that normal traditional science doesn't have an explanation for it well there's lots of things that you would expect traditional normal science not have an explanation for traditional normal science doesn't have all the answers there's a lot to learn yet right there's much that they don't understand let's go back to you know 300 years ago you know what did traditional you know science know that what didn't they know well they didn't know almost anything about our you know the way we now they didn't know anything about computers and automobiles and networks and none of that stuff was known so anything a computer then would have been paranormal would have been beyond you know what science could think about it could work a color television a television a radio would have been paranormal you see all these things were beyond normal that's what para means beyond normal they don't flow logically out of normal normal means today's traditional science well that's not because there's something spooky about these events that's because traditional science is delivering about a whole lot of things which is the whole point of my big tub a different view of science in which all these things make sense rather than the view in which these things are para and beyond science you know the experiments of pair labs are all paranormal in the sense that normal science won't explain them same with all the experiments Dean Regan does JB Ryan did and all of the stuff is all listed paranormal not because of any particular attribute of its own but simply because the limited physics of our time can't explain it well let's not say that the paranormal stuff is goofy because we believe that the physics is complete why don't we say that the unknown that's para you know beyond our normal understanding is just because the traditional science is ignorant you know what's wrong with that view you know they just don't know yet how to explain that well with my big toe there is a logical science that does explain that and that's the way it normally works with Newtonian physics now there was a logical science with Newtonian physics that explained all kinds of things like the motion of all the heavenly bodies and the stars moving across the sky turned out they really weren't being drawn by angels and cherry that's attached to the you know attached to the star the moon and all that kind of stuff that wasn't right yeah there was a simple equation know that the gravitational force G GMM over R square right where G's the gravitational constant that explained it all just at one equation of Newton's explain how everything worked so you can't ya say well this you know the paranormal is a bunch of goofy wumu people that are all hallucinating instead of saying well the paranormal reflects a whole bunch of facts that science can't explain but perhaps science will change and evolve one day to be able to explain those see that's a more rational approach rather than the approach well we we have science know everything you know we're omniscient and we know it all and these things don't fit therefore they're goofy and wrong and anybody that thinks they're like that is goofy and wrong and having a hallucination see that's a supreme arrogance that I know everything and if this isn't part of what I know that obviously it's wrong it doesn't exist you know just a supreme arrogance that takes that view rather than well these things now for the last you know 50 or 60 years have been studied very carefully by very good scientists and have shown to exist therefore we scientists don't understand everything that there is to understand there's more to reality than what we know of when we need to to modify our models so that we can understand these things and make them rational make them to where they are they are you know we understand how they work and why they work that way not just not just some kind of metaphor for them or not just not just admitting that they exist but actually understanding how and why they work and seeing that they are just as repeatable and just as rational and just as explainable as anything else see now that would be a more intelligent way of approaching the problem rather than I know everything and if this isn't part of what I know it's got to be wrong and you people who think it's true got to be crazy got to be wackos no credibility because we know everything I mean when you put it in those words it's obviously just you know their arrogance beyond you know belief but we tend to get that way we tend to believe that we know everything is the problem so I guess we wandered a bit for them you know we didn't I mean to the listeners out there the science has arrived that explains the big picture outside of conventional physics and that is you look my big toe well the point of my big toe is to explain you know the subjective the subjective world is also explainable you know in our science says no subjective world is not explainable you know it changes based on the whim of the subject and while that's true that doesn't mean it isn't explainable it's just not explainable in terms of deterministic worldview say and of course the traditional science if it's not part of a deterministic worldview if it's not this clockwork process then it can't be real but we know that most of our life is like clockwork process most of our decisions are not logical most of what matters to us love affection cooperation integration with others satisfaction none of these things are clockwork processes so most of what is important to us is is covered or has any understanding of how it fits and why it is you know from our traditional science a tradition of science as well these things are not scientific well that's another way of saying we don't understand the science that explains these things but they would never admit that that you would just say it's non-scientific there's some things that you know just science just doesn't apply to them they'll never scientific Nobel - ever no well that's just a confession of ignorance and then claiming that nobody will ever know excuses you from being ignorant well it's not me that I'm ignorant nobody'll ever know it sounds like quantum mechanics guys right nobody ever understand that the double slit works that's just impossible well that's just ignorant claiming that ignorance it's okay because nobody ever not its justifying ignorance so that's not the case you can understand all the subjective you can't understand all the paranormal it does make logical sense it is part of a larger theory that unites you know the metaphysical and the physical so that's the that's the point of all of this is a bigger science that explains the whole thing of course one of the other subjects that we touched on last night we're aliens now I use that word it's a word we use for other than here but it is information it is information from other virtual realities accessing them is something like when you travel out a body you can you can access these these different realities it's really the same sort of benefits that you would get travelling here it opens your mind to the nature of the larger consciousness system and the variety of ways it refines it involved itself towards the goal of love I think it's sort of if you're exposed to there's more than my hometown there's there's the capital city there's the state there's the country there's other countries what else is there there's always that question of what more is there and as you see more experience more of other cultures the value is you're open to simply more understanding and I think that's the same with access these other virtual realities as you have done you've accessed dozens of other realities these are just the same as here some physical again that's the terminology there is is from the viewpoint but there they have their individual systems the value I think and I wonder what you your experience has taught you the value I think of tapping into these other realities and what are their constraints what are their challenges how do they structure this reality so that these beings can learn the way we're learning and you get a much broader perspective of how this whole system is okay yeah there's a there's a bunch of comments that as you were talking I was trying to remember to say one of them is that yes we can define an alien is not not from here in other words not an earthly anything it doesn't that didn't evolve on this planet then is called an alien which would take everything and it could be everything that's also in this virtual reality within this universe but not from Earth as well as everything that has nothing to do with this universe and different reality frames all of those that would become aliens whether they were just part of this universe you know other Suns other planets in this universe or whether it was outside of this universe other reality frames see most people can't think of outside this universe and other reality frames that's a thought that's too big that doesn't compute you know it's like what what's that mean that's garbage sure that doesn't make any sense er whatever but they're limited by their beliefs to only within this universe which means other planets other reality other planets other Suns and so on within this particular virtual reality but that's not true it's just because they're limited by their beliefs doesn't the reality is limited by their beliefs there are lots of other reality frames as well as this universe so if we call all of those aliens then that's a real large conglomeration of different kinds of beings that might exist to which we can interface with and it is true that if you have if you're more well-traveled you have a bigger perspective and the reason that works is that we tend to model the world on our selves we tend to think everybody else is sort of like us so you grow up in a in a small town and you have certain attitudes and ideas of the way that world works what's right what's wrong what's probably behavior what isn't and you have these ideas say and as far as you're concerned that's the way the world should be it's the only world you know so you pattern the world on what you know well that's really no fault in that you can't do anything else but pattern the world and what you know well now you travel to a different culture and you see that people do things very differently and if you're if you're open minded you realize that it's just different it's not worse it's not uncivilized because they eat with chopsticks instead of a knife and fork you see it's just different and that there are these different customs and different ways of looking at the world and they may have a whole different world view kind of a different ethic a different sense of how reality works and you realize that well you know that's just another perspective that's another cultures way of looking at the same things I looked at and suddenly your little ego you know patch of turf you know in a little town you go up in now has to include other things as possibilities you found different ways of looking at the world and they don't seem to be wrong or bad they just seem to be different well that makes you it gives you a bigger perspective whereas before you couldn't think outside of this box now you're just bigger you see and then you go and for a while live among people who are starving to death you know you go to some place where they're standing and you visit the you know the camps where food is being passed out you go place they gut and that'll teach you a compassion that you never had before because in your little town everybody was well fed everybody had a house everybody had a job everybody was doing fine and there was none of that you didn't realize that was even going on in the world or maybe you saw pictures but they're just pictures when you're there and you're a part of it it's different now perhaps you have a compassion for people that you never had before because as compassion wasn't really a you know compassion in your old thing meant that you know somebody like have a new pair of shoes their old ones were quite worn out yet but they were no longer stylish you say well that's kind of different amount of compassion and compassion about all these children and their mothers and fathers they're all starving to death it's kind of a different degree of compassion all together so travelling broadens your sense of what are the possibilities it broadens your reality so instead of living in a little reality based on a little bit of experience you live in a bigger reality based on a much bigger experience the larger your reality is the larger your choices are so if you have a big perspective you kind of look and say well you know here's something that happened here's a you know stuff happens what am I going to do well you now have maybe a hundred choices instead it's just ten because you've seen how lots of other people might deal with that same kinds of things for other cultures other ways of looking at it and it broadens your reality which broadens your choices runs the scope of your freewill and you become a an expanded awareness you see your awareness is expanding and when you take that further to explain exploring the larger reality then again it broadens your awareness there's all kinds of life is not just our reality system there's virtual realities here and here here and they're all doing similar kinds of things but doing it differently why is that what are the similarities what are the differences what are significant about the differences what could I learn from those differences and you get another perspective so yes all of that is helpful in your growing up and becoming a you know instead of a citizen of say you know a country here instead of being a citizen of the US or a citizen of Japan you become a citizen of the world because you're well-traveled and then you grow up and become maybe a citizen of the universe because you communicate with other entities that are part of this universe and then maybe you become a citizen of you know the larger reality of in consciousness and all of those expand your general awareness give you a larger reality to live in and you learn to live in those realities you know you don't just live here your mind takes you to other places you learned a parallel process you begin to live in multiple realities at the same time that's the that's kind of the nature of life and one of the things comes to mind when we sit here and we do this talk and we were joking about it last night that we were seen here talking with each other and we've been you know we were stuttering and couldn't seem to pronounce the words right and part of that on you know mine I have people write in and say yeah yeah well you're drunk you know you're slurring your words like now actually what's going on when I'm having these interviews I'm probably only about 30% in this physical reality frame on swear most of the time gathering information putting the words together trying to understand all of the minds that are going to listen how is it that I can put it together in such a way that more people will understand it better so doing all this processing while the mouth is talking and gathering information at the same time and trying to you know put it together that because I'm only 30% in this physical reality I don't work my body quite as well as I would have I'm not quite as coordinated I don't speak as clearly my lips get a little heavy and thick you know and also when you talk for three hours you know your looks kind of dry out they do get a little have anything but that's part of it that's because I'm only partially here when I do this if I had to give these talks and these interviews offer my intellect if I was just working out of my intellect that I was a hundred percent here in this physical reality working out of my intellect it would be awful they would you know if this would be awful I wouldn't have the scope or the breath to explain things such that other people look at it and see big pictures you know everything would be sliced and diced and it would be more intellectual process it would be more left brain you know the right brain isn't is tightly you know closed in as the left brain but I'm not so that's why sometimes I don't pronounce words very clearly because I'm not really but you know small percentage of me here manipulating the physical body that has to move its lips and and talk so it's it gets the pin and the further out I get if I get to where I'm only 10% here you know then my eyes tend it's kind of glazed too and I don't look like I'm really focused on anything yeah there would be another sign what you get but it's not that's Dennis's famous quote of a dozen foot stair yeah I think he quoted I think we quoted him on describing one of your experiences as a thousand foot stair that you get anyway stumbled over I had a lot of people that tell me that because I yeah because I'm not entirely here I'm doing other things other places and I'm gathering information and I will sometimes just let my body go on but uh you know in which case I might just never blink you know just kind of stare that's the one and after a while people feel a little uncomfortable with that yeah and it makes them feel uncomfortable that I'm not blinking and I'm staring at them when actually I'm not stirring that thing at all it's just it's just a position I left my body and it just doesn't have a signal to do anything else you're pulling information from all of these other these other sources wit Tom in your in your vast experience of accessing other realities I think I may know the answer to this that I'd like to know what what you think from your experience are other beings in these other realities struggling as much with beliefs fears and egos as we are is are they much are their challenge is much the same yes they're not yeah they're not the same because their whole social situations are sometimes very different their bodies are sometimes very different a different rule set but in general if you just look at the part that matters they are from the big picture look it's exactly the same so the details aren't exactly the same but at the bigger picture yes it's exactly the same they're struggling they're trying to learn to become loved and not doing a very good job of it there's lots of ego there's lots of control power force what about me there's it's it's the same sort of thing because that's the nature of conscious that's how consciousness grows up it lets go of fear yeah love is letting go of fear you get rid of ego you get rid of belief you get rid of fear and all the other thing your fear creates these things you know like ego is a creation of fear and a lot of belief is a creation of fear not all believe but quite a lot of it is a creation of fear the expectations this creation fears the fears big thing you get rid of the fear and you get rid of all the stuff drops away and what do you have left after the fear is gone love you say so it's not like becoming love is this thing this magic thing you somehow have to figure out how to do what you have to do is get rid of the fear you know get rid of the expectations get rid of the ego or the beliefs when you get rid of all that limiting stuff that gets in your way you are life so you've arrived you've done that so sometimes people get the idea that this becoming love is a they want a prescription how to do that you know what steps do I take to do that but the steps you have to take yourself you have to get rid of the bad habits you have to get rid of the fear that you have and then you you are love the spirits love has no expectations you know love requires no belief you know love has to be freely given it's this sort of thing so that's the the idea in becoming love is really letting go all the things that blocking you from expressing and being that love so you have that potential in you but it's it's just potential you're not there yet you have to through experience learn your your elf has to through experience learn how to become a level 60 whatever and its gain right it needs to do that and it needs it can only do that through experience you can't buy your level 60 where you can get that guess you can in those games you can buy a character that's already had the experience to work it up to eleven sixty but you only get level 60s or 65 or 70s or whatever it is these days at the top of the game through experience nobody can do it for you so that's it that's the game that brings us to thank you to think that brings us to one more comment that we were speaking about judgments against other evil that's going on evil people evil deeds looking outside saying well you know I'm not like that but really what you have to do is only look at yourself and it I think that is you're one of your primary statements in your my big toe coming from the subjective part of your theory that the only thing that you can change is yourself and the judgment on anything else outside is is really few and non-productive non-productive for your own growth now we do have to judge you know we do have to judge certain things because we have to interact in the world and we have to make guesses and we have to project and we have to say well that guy who you know had the real greasy hair and was telling us that this car was owned by little old lady and never drove it over 35 mile an hour you know and though it's 20 years old it only has 5,000 miles on it and it got rust all over it then so you know maybe I don't trust that maybe this is I should go someplace else or maybe I should be very careful by getting the mechanic - look at that car you see that's making a judgement right you kind of come to those judgments and we we make those because we have to interact all the time yeah producer what we do we do that and to some extent you know that's okay but once that becomes prejudicial you say once you're no longer making it based on probability if you're just looking at the probabilities and making a decision then that's like doing the best you can to get along and very confusing and sometimes violent unpleasant place but when it becomes not a matter of looking at the probabilities and looking at the data becomes a matter of just prejudice oh good that guy you know he has the skin color can't trust him he's probably a thief you say now you've gone past the point of it being useful into the part of it being harmful it's no longer just the data now it's a belief you see from doing an analysis a rational analysis of the data looking at the probabilities and saying oh this is a bad part of town there's a lot of crime here I don't think we ought to drive through there tonight I think we ought to go around see that's a that's probably a rational decision to make but to say also came from that neighborhood therefore there probably a criminal you see that is not a rational decision to make one is looking at the statistics of an area and making a decision whether it were to drive the other is is painting a person with the attributes of the area he comes from that may or may not be true now you've got a belief we have a prejudice and that is wrong so it's a little tricky and to say well don't ever make any judgments but we do have to make some judgments but we have to make them without belief without the prejudice without the ego you know without the fear you know although that we can get rid all that then our judgments are basically just being rational it's looking at the data and being rational so the judgments we want to get rid of our judgments of like you were bringing up comparison oh I'm better than that person yeah I'm more loving than them you know this guy's really evil you know I don't want to hang around with him we make these kinds of judgments and they're mostly ego belief in fear and if that's where we're coming from then the judgment is just wrong and it drags us down and it's not usual what for every well most people live their lives based on fear ego and belief I mean that's what drives most of us to do what we do for the average person walking around in this Learning Lab fear belief and ego make up probably 99% of all their motivations for doing anything the way they treat their children the way they treat the spouse how they work you know how they relate to their co-workers their boss I mean everything they're driven by fear from their religion to you know to their jobs to their families it's fear ego belief expectations needs once desires it's all of that stuff is what drives it well that's the problem so for somebody who makes 99% of their decisions based on that then it's a fair thing to say is stop making judgments see judgments are wrong you know give up making judgments and that's a fair thing to say because that's generally true but it's not necessarily it has to be true you can make judgments you have to make judgments about do you drive through this neighborhood okay we got out of the movie it's midnight you know we're going to drive through Central LA tonight through this neighborhood well probably not a good idea particularly if you're driving in a w you know with leather seats probably a bad idea and so judgements aren't bad by themselves it's just judgements based on fear are bad and that's true of anything that's just judgement when we tell our mind to settle down when we learn how to meditate the thing we have to stop doing we call it you know quieting the monkey mind right it's that monkey mind it's chattering well what that monkey mind is doing is analyzing and judging its judgment am I doing this right is is this working in my inner meditation state oh it's not working oh I must not be doing it right well maybe I should say my mattre quicker or maybe I should say it slower or maybe I should think it harder maybe I should try harder you see and we start second-guessing judging analyzing and it's this litany of monkey mind jabber that prevents us from ever getting in the meditation state you see that's the stuff we want to you know tell it to sit down and be quiet and that's what people have a hard time doing they immediately start analyzing it and we taught this today as soon as somebody make contact with something outside of them the very next second it was that real was that me what did it mean I can't tell you no I don't know whether that was me or not that then you get all wadded up in this stuff and they've just killed the opportunity to learn something see by their constant judging so we say we tend to say when we're talking about blanket you know blanket advice you know no judgments no this but that does confuse people because people say well you have to make some judgments you need discernment you need to be able to you know look at the situation and decide what's a smart move and what's not so being being love doesn't mean becoming an idiot see that's the thing some people get into that well if I became loved I'd be this this mumbling idiot who had nothing to say and couldn't talk couldn't think you know I just be experiencing love and I've been I turn into a rock right a happy Rock and it's not it's not like that at all you know that's not the point and people think to be detached when you're detached that means removed aloof no longer connected no being detached means you're not attached to your ego you're not attached to your fear so that's what we mean by being a task it's not that you can't be compassionate it's not that you can't care deeply you can be detached and care deeply those two are not mutually exclusive so you could people have a hard time with those kinds of distinctions so they're worth talking about a little bit so yes you can be completely detached that just means there's no ego fear belief at the root of your intentions you're not working out of that stuff and that's what people mean when they say you have to be completely detached they don't mean you have to let go of your sense of reality or sense of community or sense of caring for another individual now you're detached you're above it all just floating through life and you neither care nor not care for anything it's the wrong idea it's not that way too so yes you should stop the judgement stop the chatter but realize that you know we're only saying that in a sense that that is good advice for most people just cut that out because most of what you do is that and that's what prevents you from meditating it's all that chatter coming from the ego the fear and the beliefs so yes it is important to let that go it's important to understand the source of your problem is you it's not somebody else and if you have to make comparisons am i doing it right this is this happen to me is that is that okay I think I'd probably a lot more loving now than I was six months ago what do you think well all of that's okay you do need some feedback you do need to ask these questions but it's still your ego you know it's like you've heard the old saying acquiring minds when to know you know well inquiring egos want to know it's probably a better more accurate saying inquiries inquiring egos want to know am i doing it right is that really somebody I'm talking to or is that just me and inquiring ego needs to know these things because it was just me that I'm being a fool there was somebody else then gee I'm excited but how can I tell I can't tell well I'm paralyzed now with confusion and inability to go forward see it's that sort of thing because inquiring egos went to that did you ever go back and look at Albert Einstein or you know so-and-so historical figures wouldn't it be neat to go and have a chat with them well it's like well why well you know inquiring egos would like to know what it was like but there's you know there's very little would it be gain from that because growth has to come from inside you it's not about somebody else it's not about understanding somebody else's viewpoint it's not about memorizing my big toe it's not about believing anything I say none of that's going to help you grow up expanding your world that's good but you don't have to travel in the outer body or do remote viewing or do lucid dreaming to grow up that's really not the point either you don't even have to travel you could stay in the same town you were born in and never leave you know podunk you know Oklahoma if you want to you could do that and you could grow up there and you could become loved there it would be a different path that you could do that there perhaps through the path of service would be a way that you could do that without triangle without expanding your wings there's a were several paths to get to this if you take the The Warrior's path to the path of knowledge then it's very helpful because expanding your awareness expands your knowledge expands your worldview expands your picture and things start making sense and on the path of knowledge is may things making sense is how you get there you learn you grow you understand it we Westerners we in Western culture you I most everybody we know that's our that's our natural path because we in the Western world tend to be left brain dominant and we want to know we want to understand it has to make sense to us if it doesn't make sense us we can't go there that's like if I don't know that the person I'm talking to is not me then I can't continue to talk to them see we can't go unless we have left brain connection to the process it's just the way we are in this culture other cultures are different they don't have to do that they can walk right in the mystical understanding without ever having the left brain get connected to it because their culture supports that ours does not you're an idiot if you do that in our culture you're a woowoo you know right bring no space cadet in our culture if you take that path so most people in our path don't do that they want the path of knowledge and in the path of knowledge then if that's your path you're much better off to travel to get out of Kansas or wherever and view the larger reality to you know travel around this planet to travel outside of you know this universe it gives you a bigger reality and a bigger perspective but that's more localized to this path that you can get people who do very well and who are very grown up and they maybe have never lived anyplace other than you know that one has their whole life but they still grow up anyway so my point is it's not necessary to do these things but it's helpful if you happen to be of a mind frame and a culture where your natural path is through the path of knowledge then it becomes very valuable if any path and one goal which is yeah many ways to go there even within each path there's many ways even through just the path knowledge there's a hundred different ways you can take within that and then there's the path of service and then there's the path of surrender the path of surrender is a path that is typically what we would call religious path okay the Western religions have kind of migrated a little bit from that but basically we'd look at maybe the Hindu or Buddhist where if you're on a serious religious path you become a monk you go sit in the monastery you surrender yourself to the higher power sort of thing that's the path you surrender that doesn't happen too much in Western cultures because that's a low-value activity in the West it can be a very high can be the highest value activity elsewhere but here it's not so we don't have a whole lot of Westerners taking the path of surrender you may have we may have example saying whether Theresa that was probably a path of service her main thing was helping others it wasn't converting others preaching to others explaining things to others intellects on the path of knowledge it was just service period my guess is that didn't know Mother Teresa but from what I've read I would say she had very little use for dogma and rules and here's the way we do it and here's the way we see it you need to believe this I don't think that was her strong suit I think her strong suit was here's where I can help here's where I can be of service period the rest of it wasn't that important the service is important and you have those who like the Dalai Lama who are obviously the path of surrender you know they are they've given themselves up to something bigger than themselves and they grow through that you know through that process although the Dali was probably well traveled you know as any being here he goes all over this planet and you know talking and interacting with people so he's active at the left brain part of it and he also you know is in charge of certain amount of service and yeah that they that they do so yeah you don't have to just pick one and stick with it you can be you can be part of all of the you know it's not like you pick a path and it's one of these three it can be all of these three it can be bits and pieces of them tied together in interesting ways this infinite number of paths to the same conclusion even though the Dalai Lama is connected with a certain religion he recently was quoted and I have to paraphrase it because I don't know the exact quote as saying that we need to look above religion or this world is not going to be on a you know an evolving path it's really paraphrasing that we we have to look outside of religion I think was the gist of the quote and that was interesting I think yes it's absolutely correct and here you know just like you have a mother Teresa who's applying the path of service within a structure the Catholic religion that has all sorts of structure and beliefs and you know things you know things to swear to but that really wasn't that important to her it was the service see when I Dalai Lama is on the you know the path of surrender and he's surrendered and he is one with the greater reality because he's surrendered himself to it and he's learned a lot so here is this very wise man but he's not really tied to the you know to the to the concept of religion saying we got to rise above it and the reason he says we have to rise above it as he realizes that all over the world when you talk when you say the word religion it's not about surrendering to a higher power it's about structure and dogma and belief creed there it's a belief thing and belief is that is the problem belief goes in there with fear yeah have all these people tied up to I'm right you're wrong you know my beliefs are right your beliefs are wrong you're go you will go to hell I won't you know you have all this I'm better than you are well that's just ego and fear talking and belief so we need to get rid of that so he sees that he sees that religion quote unquote isn't the the kind of mystical attachment to the larger reality as he sees it to a lot of people to most people it's a belief set of a bunch of dogma well and he's seeing that doesn't that's not helping people we need to get above this attachment to a bunch of dog that's holding this back that's a limit as' and what we can see and understand so so you see it's a it's natural for him to come to that conclusion but it's a little startling because here's the guy who's primarily more than anything else a religious figure right and he's saying we gonna let go that he doesn't mean that we need to let go of our surrender to the larger you know power the larger system that's not what he's talking about you're seeing any let go religion we need to let go of the creed of the dogma of the stuff that makes us dislike and hate each other and all that negatives you know ego junk and fear is what we have to get rid of and that happens to be what most people think of when they think of religion it's not about the surrender it's about that my my dogma you know my dogma can beat up you're done you know it's that kind of a childish your ego sort of approach so that's what he said it's a very it was a wonderful thing for him to say because I'm sure it made a whole lot of people think there's probably today one of them most primary symbols of religious activity is the Dalai Lama everybody respects the Dalai Lama whatever your faith is the Dalai Lama is obviously a wise man he speaks of peace and love and nothing else you know that's what he talks about coming together you know being one so it's all you know all the things he say it's hard for anybody to disagree with so he's kind of helded world-renown right as a piece of wisdom it's a man of wisdom and understanding and for him to say that that's extremely enlightening I think probably for lots of lots of people yes it is and I think on that high note we will end the interview and thank you very much Tom you're quite welcome it's been a pleasure done


More from this creator:
"Afterlife" interview of 9/28/12 continues with additional comments and new material: Tom talks about how beings who have enough experience here can plan their next life, and how the the avatar is connected (video game analogy for our virtual reality) with Consciousness. We are a different being as Consciousness than we are as our body (avatar) and role here in this reality. This is an important and encouraging point to remember when you contemplate the "you" in this life experience. You are most likely doing your best, yet you have more choices and potential than you think you have. Hitler takes a few more hits in this discussion of intent at the root of choice that determines the evolution or de-evolution of a being. Is he fundamentally different from others who make evil choices but are unknown and have much less impact on humanity? Tom delivers hard-hitting comments to scientists who claim they already know everything (we can't really know the "other" Fredkin refers to?), and anything different to what they believe must be wrong. Comments on Bruce Lipton's work on cells and Consciousness take the conversation to higher levels of existence. Do beings from other reality frames (Tom has been to dozens) deal with the same struggles and challenges that we deal with here? What are their goals? Do beliefs and dogma really help us on the path of evolution?

Tom's website

Dean Radin

Bruce Lipton

Marla Frees

Interview by Donna Aveni
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