BrainScratch: Heidi Allen

by: LordanARTS

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[7.429]
hello everybody happy Friday welcome to another edition of brain scratch I'm your host John Lordan and today we're going to be looking into the case of Heidi Allen and I have to give a very big thank you to Libby who did the research on this case she sent me a ton of great information now this case is pretty big there's a lot to it I'm going to try to touch on most of the important aspects but do know that there is a episode of Dateline that has been released on this it's called The Informant I'll have a link down in the description box below so you can check that out I think it's definitely worth your time especially if this case grabs your interest so let's get started here we have some photos of Heidi Allen and we can see there's a memorial up here and this is a photo you will see commonly of her as well as this one and if you're looking at the photo and saying well that seems like that's from a while ago you're right this case is actually from 1994 and this could almost be more of a searchlight case except it is presumed that she is dead unfortunately there is a man sitting in prison I think the official charge for him was actually a kidnapping charge I'm not sure if he was charged with murder in particular but there's some question if the right person is sitting in prison for either of those crimes so we're going to start with a timeline that was put together by Libby here just to kind of get into this case a bit quicker than usual April 3rd 1994 5:45 a.m. Heidi reported to work at the dnw convenience store in New Haven New York her boyfriend brett law went with her and stayed until business picked up so she wasn't alone apparently that's something that he did regularly he didn't want her to be all alone there in the morning so he waited until traffic would kind of pick up before he would leave 742 a.m. was the last entry on the register tape it turned out to be Richard Thibodeaux he purchased two packs of basic cigarettes other customers had been in to buy the paper and gas and they assumed that Heidi was in the bathroom they actually left money on the counter and then around 7:50 8:00 a.m. a concerned customer flagged down a passing Oswego County Sheriff on patrol he informed him that the store was unattended Allen had left her car keys on the counter and her maroon station wagon outside not even a slim jim was out of place one owner said yeah outside of that I believe her purse was also in there no money was taken from the register all of her personal effects were in there so obviously this you know you when you start looking at scenarios here of course you're going to think is there a possible theft going on does not seem to be the motive for this case hundreds of people searched for Allen with no success countless fliers with her picture were posted from Florida to Watertown and people still talk about seeing the Flyers this was a very very popular case in the area and continues to be so even up to this day what authorities believe happened Richard Thibodeaux made Allen's last purchase two boxes of basic cigarettes at 7:42 a.m. together the Thibodeaux brothers then forced Allen out of the store noteworthy Richard contacted the police after hearing of Heidi going missing he detailed his purchase and a man that held the door open for him all of which was verified by the other customer who never said Richard had anyone with him Gary that's Richard's brother was supposedly home on Easter morning and had an alibi which was backed up by family members a witness saw two men leading a young woman into a van but couldn't identify any of them they put Allen into Richard's white and black van then drove to Gary's residence in Mexico about eight miles away keep in mind this is the kind of the police version of events here a witness saw a two-tone van swerving through the village of Mexico with the driver apparently struggling with thing behind him several neighbors reported seeing a white in black van parked in Geary Thibodeau's driveway that morning hours later Gary Thibodeaux and his then-girlfriend drove to Massachusetts where he was originally from where their 1983 Cadillac broke down they had to replace a drive shaft two days later on April 5th 1994 according to a receipt from a mechanic shop in Leo münster mass that day later a witness saw Richard Thibodeaux and another man believed to be Gary Thibodeaux carrying a long object in clear plastic into the woods in Palermo it was about 10:00 a.m. April 6th on red schoolhouse Road the object was eight to ten feet long covered in clear plastic and tied with what appeared to be rope at both ends the witness described but a search of the woods found only clothing unrelated to Allen's disappearance at trial two inmates testified that Gary Thibodeaux talked about Allen's disappearance in jail the inmates claimed that Gary told them Allen used drugs gary Thibodeaux denies that in court when Gary fibaro was found guilty a juror said that it wasn't one thing that convinced the panel of his guilt as much as testimony from witnesses that had no personal interest in the case those witnesses included the neighbors the witnesses at the store and those who saw the van after the kidnapping one of those two inmates that talked about Gary claiming that he had actually done this actually recanted his story much later and it is worth noting that they tried Richards separately from Gary and Gary gets convicted but Richard is set free which is very interesting because you would figure that the evidence should be pretty similar in both cases but they're boiling it down at least commentary around this boils it down to the juries that just one jury looked at things a little bit differently than the other and also obviously Richard did not have the testimony of these two inmates that said that he was involved so that might have been a key factor in swaying the first jury Gary Thibodeaux said that the neighbors were all mistaken about shirt's van being in the driveway that morning in fact he said that happened a week later Richard later gave fingerprint blood and pubic hair samples to authorities his van was searched and no trace of Heidi Allen was found Richard Thibodeaux also denied ever carrying an object into the woods in Palermo three days later his boss testified that Richard was working in Liverpool that day though the boss acknowledged he didn't watch him the whole day both the Bedok brothers volunteered to help with Alan's search effort before their arrests and this this is a real interesting thing for me personally because I know in many videos I've talked about if you have some information that could help someone get that information to the authorities and quite frequently in the comments I've seen a lot of people come back with John you can't trust the authorities if you come to them they're going to find some way to you know blame you or you might become a suspect in this and this seek appears to be a case where precisely that happens Richard is the one to originally contact the authorities to say that he was in there that morning that he had bought two cigarettes this was a place that he went to frequently and all of a sudden he becomes their primary suspect his brother gets wrapped into this in a way that quite honestly I still don't understand when it comes to physical evidence for this case they never find a trace of her anywhere it's not like they found the brothers van and they you know found some hair in there and they were like no we can tell that she was actually in this van there is nothing that strong in terms of evidence this cased appears to be based largely on circumstances and testimony from other people about what they saw and what things that they heard these guys say so does not seem like an extremely strong case and apparently you can even debate that because one brother was convicted and the other brother got off so since that case we do have some new persons of interest that pop up in this story Tonya priest this is a woman that told investigators that one of three men James Dean admitted to her killing Alan and hiding her body he told her that he Roger Breckenridge and Michael Bohr had abducted Alan because she was planning to go to the police about drug dealers worth noting Michael Bohr was also a frequent customer at this DMW convenience store he would go there very often and apparently Heidi would make sandwiches for him quite often that's going to come up a little bit later James thumper Steen that's the guy that spoke to Tonya priests and kind of bragged about killing Alan he is now serving life in prison for killing his estranged wife and boyfriend who I believe is also his cousin if I read that right in an article about that Roger Breckenridge eight witnesses have implicated Breckenridge and Alan's kidnapping and death or the disposal of her remains I believe those witnesses are all people that he has talked to I don't think we have any witnesses that actually saw him conducting any of these activities and then we get back to Michael Bohr a man obsessed with the case as described by the crime profiler there's a kind of a famous criminal profiler and he noted that the person that did this would likely be tracking every piece of media that happened around this case and would try to inject himself into this case in some way and Michael Bohr was found with several boxes containing clippings all about this case as well as personal notes that he had written on this case we'll get into him a bit more later he has also threatened people to do to them what he did to Heidi Wescott that's Roger Breckenridge his ex-girlfriend in a secretly recorded phone call in 2013 Westcott told Tanya priest that Breckinridge James Dean and Michael Bohr brought the kidnapped Alan to her house in a van she said that they didn't actually bring her into the house that they had kept her out in the van but this woman appears to have some information she didn't know that call was being recorded and when she was confronted by police about it she started kind of doubling back and retracting her statements they let her know hey look we have you recorded saying this stuff and then she kind of pushed forward and started agreeing to some of the statements again but due to that flip-flopping I think that it kind of weakened her testimony when they got to an appeals trial for Gary to try to get his charges reversed so as you can see for a case that took place in 1994 we'd certainly have a lot of recent developments this is an article from May 23rd 2016 that's only a couple days after the Dateline episode aired it was 22 years ago now when 18 year old Heidi Allen disappeared early Easter Sunday morning in 1994 from the DW convenience store that she worked for in New Haven just another little tidbit I bumped into apparently that store was supposed to be closed that day and I don't know if it was a last-minute decision or not but I guess the owners wound up wanting it open and she went in so I just kind of wish that they would have kept it closed that day despite the years that have passed this particular case has recently caught national attention when it aired on Friday May 20th as an episode on Dateline NBC entitled the informant I think the national attention is good to show the injustice in our country perhaps it will force our country to do their job I hope it will encourage others with information to come forward said Gary Thibodeau's niece Amanda Crawford Richard Thibodeaux admitted to Dateline his skeptical reception to law enforcement since the trial for himself and his brother all those years ago saying that he now lives in fear and regrets most making that phone call to the Sheriff's Department that ultimately landed his brother in prison so if you're getting little hints of making a murderer I certainly feel that this case is headed in that direction I'm really happy that there is so much media that is kicking up around this and I have to say Syracuse comm has one reporter in particular believe his name's John O'Brien if I'm recalling correctly that is doing a fantastic job of really staying on top of this case getting a lot of new Meishan and releasing it and making it quite public and as a matter of fact if this thing ever does get overturned I think that he is he's due to be patted on the back for helping to expose some of this new information if you do go looking for the episode just know that for some reason the official Dateline website has two listings for this link and one of them does not work the other one does so I've put the working one in the description box for you below but it might go away at some point so if you go to that link down below and it's no longer there just do another google search specifically for Dateline The Informant that's the name of the episode and hopefully you'll find it reposted somewhere else so what about this talk about drug charges I mean what does she have to do with drugs well there's a pretty interesting wrinkle in the story that I definitely didn't see coming when I first started looking into it for twenty years after heidi allen disappeared there were questions about whether or not she had been a confidential drug informant last year court filings showed she had an informant ID card and a code name along with a 20 year old report from the Sheriff's Department saying Alan volunteered to be an informant heidi Allen's Aunt Martha skirts met with Oswego County sheriff's investigators on September 8th in a recorded interview Stewart's says Alan who was then 15 years old had been babysitting her cousin Melissa Searles child at a house on Pleasant Point Road near Lake Ontario in the early 1990s heidi got so she was staying there instead of coming home and got in with the whole group they were having a booze party quote then police arrived at the Point Pleasant house Sturt says they contacted Heidi Allen's mother she got called because Heidi was only 15 and had the baby she was watching in the car asleep so at this point you have at least underage drinking possibly child endangerment with having the child outside in the car probably a few serious charges especially for a fifteen-year-old so I think they might have had some leverage here in terms of turning her into an informant but I think that would only happen if there was something about drug use here and even though it doesn't state it particularly in this part of the article I think miss starts gets to get gets to leaking that information a little later in this article now here we get another interesting turn heidi allen's uncle is russell Sturtz Sturtze was a town justice in new haven martha stewart's told investigators tension between Allen and her parents led to a person in need of supervision petition for Allen also known as a pins petition Sturt says her husband intervened to help his teenage niece quote she was at these parties and so she wouldn't get in trouble he contacted somebody and talked to her about doing a pins and if she gave them information they wouldn't charge her Sturt said heidi allen was not living at home when she disappeared and she had been living with another aunt and grandmother for five or six months quote we kept all of that hidden because it was connected to melissa and the drug stuff that she was into and got heidi involved in and Heidi got in all this trouble said Stewart's so there it sounds pretty clear to me that Heidi might have also been involved in some type of drug use that charge would seem more likely for them to try to get her to roll on potentially who she was buying from and get her into this informant status heidi apparently was a very smart girl and pretty brash and brave her sister speaks very highly of her so I think that when she was presented with this opportunity to maybe make these charges go away by helping the police maybe that appealed to her in some way and possibly that is part of of what happened to this young woman it's pretty strange to me that in terms of talking about the Thibodeaux brothers we never really get to the point of a motive we know nothing was taken from there as a matter of fact it seems kind of silly to me that Richard would go in and actually even conduct a transaction if he was thinking oh hey we've got this great opportunity to kidnap this girl here why is he going to buy the cigarettes why not kidnap her and then take a few cartons of cigarettes if that's what he wants the logic around all that really really fails me and when they don't understand the motive I just I don't know how these cases get through but occasionally sometimes they do I think there's an assumption because she's a young girl she was a pretty girl that this could be motivated by some type of sexual crime just right off the bat and honestly I had the same feeling when I first started looking into this case but when he take this other aspect in consideration I mean she's a confidential informant for police you know she's out there trying to bust drug dealers that really puts a whole different spin on this for me personally and if I was on a jury and that information had come out I would certainly say that there should be some reasonable doubt around that now what's interesting is in Richards trial apparently that was known but in Gary's trial it seems like for some reason his legal team did not get that same notification about knowing that she was doing this type of work so they weren't able to use that in their defense they tried to bring this up just recently actually in one of his appeals to get this looked at again but it doesn't look like that's going real well speaking of the appeal Thibodeaux appeal sheriff's office steered heidi allen case to cover their own wrongdoing and here we have a picture of Lisa Peebles who is the main attorney that is now trying to help Gary through this process the Oswego County Sheriff's Office and properly directed its investigation into the 1994 kidnapping of Heidi Allen at a pair of brothers to conceal deputies own wrongdoing a defense lawyer argued in court papers Lisa Peebles a lawyer for one of the brothers Gary Thibodeau made the accusation in a 114 page brief she filed Tuesday with a state appeals court Thibodeaux 62 was the only person convicted of kidnapping Allen 18 from her job the DMW convenience store in New Haven on April 3rd 1994 and presumably killing her his brother Richard Thibodeaux was acquitted in a separate trial they were accused of acting together Thibodeau claims prosecutors did not disclose all documents about Alan working as a confidential informant for Oswego County sheriff's deputies and that her status as an informant was compromised in 1992 that's when a sheriff's deputy accidentally dropped Alan's index card and photo in the parking lot of the D and W and yes that is the same DMW she was working at I've seen a report say that it was before she was actually working there but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me I think that he probably would have been using it when he was going to see her at some point and maybe he dropped it on his way out of the car or his way back into the car so I'm not sure about the timing in terms of issues working there or not but they clearly did drop this information that had a picture of her had her real name had her codename pretty telling stuff especially if it got into the wrong hands now the sheriff's claimed well no one saw it because the owner found it and gave it back to us that doesn't mean no one saw it you don't know who could who could have taken a look at that before the the owners of the DMW found it so but that is kind of the assumption that they used in court district attorney Greg Oakes has 90 days to file a response with the appeals court this article is actually only from a few weeks ago it's from the middle of September 2016 so this is a new approach that they're trying to kick through the appeals court but this article also details the one that they tried just this past May peebles also asked the appeals court to overturn the abidos conviction based on new evidence in a filing in May the most significant was a secretly recorded phone call in which Jennifer Westcott said her boyfriend and two other men brought what she believed was the kidnapped Alan to her home in 1994 and left her in a van alen's informant status gave those three men Roger Breckenridge Michael Bohr and James Stein a motive for kidnapping her Peebles wrote at least 14 witnesses testified last year that Steen Breckenridge or borer made admissions to them about their involvement in the kidnapping or disposal of Allen's body judge king rejected that recorded phone call as quote wholly unreliable and even if you reject that phone call I don't know how you reject all these witnesses and keep in mind you don't need to prove that these guys necessarily did it all that attorney Peebles has to do here is to try to get the judge to acknowledge if this information was brought up in the trial before could that have provided reasonable doubt to the jury to make them think twice about the conviction that they actually handed down and quite honestly from what I'm seeing there's a lot of information pointing at these three guys and in particular there's a lot of information about Michael borer but it seems like the judge is being a bit hard-headed about his ruling on this and just so you know who I'm talking about this is a picture of Michael borer actually from back in the day this is February 21st 1981 but here he is now and this is the guy that at least the profiler says is acting a lot like the person that they should be looking for on top of that Syracuse calm also released this information brother of possible Heidi Allen kidnapping suspect reveals cryptic detail some time before Heidi Allen was kidnapped in 1994 Michael borer had his brother go into the store where she worked and look for a particular female employee the brother says quote I went in the store and there was no girl working there so I went back to his car and said she's not there John borer said John borer said he doesn't know who the girl was or when he went into the store looking for her John borer moved out of Oswego County some time before Allen's kidnapping John borer said he had no involvement in the April 3rd 1994 kidnapping of Allen from the DMW the borers have a history of working together to grab a young woman they didn't know they were charged in 1981 with unlawful imprisonment after Michael grabbed a woman around the throat and dragged to his car where John was inside they tried to get the woman Katherine Schmidt into the car but let her go Michael borer was convicted and was sentenced to two years probation the charges against John borer were dropped Michael borer testified in January that he went into the DMW nearly every day and that Allen used to make his sandwich he testified at a hearing to determine whether Thibodeaux should get a new trial John borer said his brother was capable of kidnapping a young woman it's a possibility John borer said another thing that comes out in this article John is very clear that his brother was indeed dealing drugs at least marijuana he says they were not involved in selling cocaine but they were selling marijuana and that's part of a fight that happened between the two of them and why john moved away Allen told a co-worker shortly before the kidnapping that she was working as a confidential drug informant for the Oswego County Sheriff's Office Allen said she was afraid because investigators wanted her to start informing on cocaine dealers not just marijuana dealers the co-worker said Allen's boyfriend brett law told sheriff's investigators last month that she was worried before the kidnapping about a quote cokehead who lived near the store Alan told law that the unidentified man had threatened to harm anyone who turned him in to police law told investigators Michael borer told Syracuse Comm last year that he knew an index card listing Allen's confidential informant information was dropped in the parking lot of the DMW some time before the kidnapping he said he was aware of that even though it was never revealed in Thibodeau's trial or in the media so this gets pretty creepy to me he's saying that he actually has knowledge of that drug informant card even though it didn't come out through media or the trial at that point how does he know about that also considering this is a local convenience store where he is going daily is he potentially doing drug deal there is he having people meet him there maybe she was noticing it maybe she was calling these things in to get him in some type of trouble and he came to know it or maybe he was just worried about it maybe she wasn't even looking at him but he found out about her being an informant and spun it up in his own head and figured that he had to do something to silence her there's a lot of possibilities that go on around this when you have this information being leaked like that and even if you look at how the judge is handling this and how the DA is talking about this case there's some little part of me that's asking are these guys trying to cover something up here are they trying to cover up the fact that the sheriff's kind of blew it by leaking knowledge of what she was doing to the wrong people or even putting her in that position I mean I wouldn't want my teenager doing something like that I wouldn't want them getting involved in criminal elements like that so that they could become some kind of informant to get off on a charge that they had her I would totally personally advise my kids against doing that take whatever charge they want to stick on you do your time do your sentence for whatever that charges and move forward but to put yourself in a position like this seems a bit risky to me and it seems like no one is really acknowledging that risk now in one of the appeals trial that happened earlier in 2016 on this case apparently the sheriff's are saying well we weren't having her work on any currently active case and that means that she was at she wasn't at risk at all I don't understand that logic whatsoever if she had worked on any case before that puts her at risk if she was responsible for passing along any information that resulted in a conviction or even a questioning of someone she was at risk so yeah I really didn't feel good about that argument especially the way that I saw it phrased just give you a little more info on the possibility of Michael Bohr here this is on web sleuths calm we have a commenter called justice will be served and he's talking about the profiler Clint Van Zant known for his work in the Unabomber and Oklahoma City bombing is wrote in a 1994 report that whoever kidnapped Allen from a New Haven convenience store would likely try to insert himself into the investigation borer 59 described himself as quote investigator a in his writings on the Allen kidnapping he collected witnesses statements he provided investigators with leads that went nowhere as early as three days after the crime and as late as two years ago at one point borer visited Allen's parents he testified they called police as we go County district attorney Greg Oaks said last year there's no credible evidence that borer or the other two new possible suspects kidnapped Allen he declined Thursday to comment on Van Zant's report and then unfortunately we do have an update in on September 15th of 2015 that Heidi Allen's mother passes away on Heidi Allen's birthday it would have been her 40th birthday when her mom died unfortunately as if all that wasn't already enough in terms of having other theories to look at there is another piece maybe the first piece of actual physical evidence to pop up so let's take a look at that cousin of 1994 kidnapping victim Heidi Allen explains silence / mysteriously returned bracelet the cousin Melissa Adams and just to put that in perspective if you remember when we were talking before about the information that Heidi's aunt gave us about her babysitting for her cousin Melissa this is the same Melissa it's just her last name has now been changed Melissa Adams says a gold bracelet she gave Allen more than 21 years ago inexplicably appeared in Adams as mailbox sometime after 2008 at least 14 years after Allen was kidnapped from a New Haven convenience store and let me just note that is Square in the middle of at least Gary Thibodeaux being in prison so I guess you could assume that maybe his brother would have placed it I mean if you really want to stay in the camp of thinking with fib a--does might be involved here possibly his brother could have put it in that mail but I have to tell you I actually did some searches trying to find arguments about the Thibodeau's being guilty here and I can't find any I really there is no one really looking at this case from that angle outside of the DA you'll see some some comments from him and the judge just the way that he's handling the appeals cases but outside of that you know I can't even find just one blog about hey know these brothers are definitely guilty here's the information on it just wanted to put that out there Adams whose maiden name is Cyril's never told police or her family about finding the bracelet in a plain white envelope in her mailbox she was worried about her family's reaction quote because it was so many years later and they were convinced the FIB a--does were guilty and Gary was already in prison and Richard had been acquitted Adam said Adam said she wouldn't have come forward if she hadn't seen the notes of a new possible suspect Michael Bohr Bohr's notes say a psychic told Bohr that Allen had hidden a bracelet in the vehicle she was kidnapped in yes a psychic the gold bracelet had Heidi on one side and love Missy on the other it's unknown whether Allen was wearing the bracelet when she was kidnapped Bohr has denied any involvement in the crime and has not been charged neither he nor his lawyer responded to requests for interviews Adams mentioned the missing bracelet in 1994 to her sister at a bar while Bohr was listening her affidavit said Adams his sister Shaughnessy Searles was bartending there Shaughnessy Searles died in a motorcycle crash a year later I did just want to note I've seen a bit of a trend with people that are kind of on the fringe of this case were they're dying a bit prematurely and I just wanted to note that because my researcher Libby also noticed the same thing but let's get back to the psychic that Bohr was talking about and there is actually a document that you could find on this Syracuse article once again they're doing an excellent job of actually posting the court documentation that they find and here on this document we can see that exhibit 53 consisted of several pages of borers handwritten notes in which he wrote that a quote bracelet behind the seat of the vehicle real good hide and in the very next paragraph he described learning through a psychic named Trudy lordy that Heidi hid a bracelet behind the seat of the vehicle real good apparently the psychic also gave him information about how she was essentially tortured and killed I don't want to really go into the details of that too much with you guys but I think it's pretty interesting that these are just in his own notes and somehow he knows about this bracelet once again he has information about this case that either he is an amazing investigator and probably should be hired by that police department immediately or he has some insight into this case that no one else seems to have and I think he should be put on a person of interest list if not be named an actual suspect it's even noted in this court documentation here there was nothing mentioned in his handwritten notes to suggest he investigated anything pertaining to Allen's abduction to the contrary his notes appear to be a record of his personal knowledge albeit he claims his knowledge was acquired through the use of a self-proclaimed psychic so I actually did a little search on Trudy lordy and was pretty interested when I bumped into a message down here that apparently came from a comment on the Oswego lion has Heidi's family ever asked how or why Trudy the psychic they called in was making rounds with borer Trudy died by a suicide and was found burned in her car I did find a obituary for Trudy and it didn't say how she died but it did say that she was only 50 when she died Bohr was living down with her and eventually she did not want him there she had him leave but her death is a suicide but something about her house burning also I don't know if she had her car possibly in a basement or attached garage I only know these few things about the one psychic and how she died in Pennsylvania seems to me like this borer guy is not someone you want to be friends with you know I'm not saying he has anything to do with this in particular but he certainly seems to have a lot of bad things happen around him and if they haven't found the physical evidence yet to get Gary a retrial I have a very strong feeling that it's going to come somewhere around this circle of Michael Bohr and the people around him it's it's very hard to look into this case and I have to admit this is media that is really giving me this perspective on doing this reviewing public information that has been publicly made available so I can't say he's the only person but I can say from all the people that I've looked into about this particular case and even looking and comparing the case against him versus the case against Gary it seems a lot stronger and probably easier to make a case against Michael now with law enforcement want to admit that they had the wrong guy in prison for over 20 years I seriously doubt it but we might be looking at another one of those cases here I'm really not certain there is also a free Gary Thibodeaux Facebook page so you could come here and see what other people are saying about his case and I really like that for the banner art they've used a picture of him when he actually heard the the guilty verdict the Dateline episode shows footage of when they're actually reading off that verdict and I think we've all seen you know that courtroom footage happen a lot but I got to tell you I have never seen the type of shock happen to someone it is so genuine it's like someone just dumped a bucket of cold water on this guy are there people that could fake that maybe even if someone did commit a crime could they put themselves in a mindset where they're so convinced that they weren't responsible for it that they should be found not guilty possibly but I got to tell you this guy was shot walked like no one I've ever seen hear the words you're guilty before and I've seen that footage quite a bit so this is where I turn it over to you brain scratchers this is a big one there's a lot of information out there please dig into the links below and then if you find anything else please share it with the rest of us in the comments I know that there's going to be more updates on this as it is right now the DA has to file a response to this latest document that has gone into the appeals court so we might do a follow-up episode if there is some big news to come out around that I'll be sure to let all of you know but outside of that I just want to thank Libby and thank each and every one of you for spending some time with me today I hope you all have a great weekend I'll catch you on the next show on the Lord



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