BrainScratch: The Caroline Small Cover Up

by: LordanARTS

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[Music] hey everyone John Lordan here happy Friday July 7th 2017 welcome to another episode of brain scratch we're going to get into a little bit of tough subject matter here today we are looking into a case that involves a police shooting there are a lot of big questions around this case there's a lot of people that feel like this shooting didn't have to happen there's there's a lot of information to consider though so with all that being said let's jump in and take a look here we have a picture of Carolyn small and unfortunately she is the person that died as a result of this shooting before we really jump in I have to give a very big thank you to reporter Brad shrade and a television reporter named Jody Fleischer they have both dug into this case extensively a lot of the media that we're going to cover was written by Brad and/or Jody sometimes working together she handled most of the television coverage we're going to look at a couple clips as well and there is video of the actual shooting we will take a look at that and I'll let you know my thoughts on that as well and I also want to give a big thank you to the brain scratcher that reached out to me and made me aware of this case I don't know if he wants me to say who he is or not I actually bumped into his name somewhere along my research here so I'll keep his name out of it but I really appreciate that he brought this to my attention I don't know it's it's really kind of heartbreaking that a lot more people don't know about this when I went looking on YouTube for videos on this I only saw a few videos which were primarily of the newscast and then the dashcam footage but I saw nothing for anyone retelling the story or trying to raise exposure to it so I'm hoping that's what I can do here so with all that being said let's start with the dashcam because that's that's kind of important for this story here we can see it's a bit of a normal car chase but a little bit low speed and there is a vehicle that is losing control gets pinned by a police cruiser it's got a either a power or telephone pole behind it and in the car that the dashcam is in actually kind of pins her in by the front there we have an officer it looks like he's swinging around to try to get to her door but then he stops and runs back a lot of screaming for her to get out and here she pulls forward again and unfortunately now sounded like seven shots to me I believe in the official reports they say that it is eight a lot going on with this video footage I think the the main assumption that most people have about it is it looks like she is blocked in everyone admits she's trying to get away she's throwing it in Reverse she's backing up against the pole she's throwing it and drive and then she's running forward into the car that this dashcam footage is from nobody denies any of that the big question in this is did those shots need to be fired and I think that's a very hard question to answer of course the police that were there on the scene they're saying they felt like their lives were in danger that becomes a little bit debatable we'll get into some of the evidence around that I don't know it just seems like a terrible outcome and the main thing that struck me the first time I watch this footage is the first shot goes through on the passenger side nowhere near the driver why couldn't they have fired that as a warning shot and then held off to see what her next move is and then tried to get her out of the car maybe by even pumping one or two more over into the passenger side you know you think of the mentality of what's going on here she has just been hit by a police car and then another one pulls up I don't know if it really tapped her when it pulled up but she is now obviously in this mentality of she's in fight-or-flight and she needs to get out of this situation and we don't even know the backstory here we don't know what's going on with this woman at this time is this really being handled the best way that it could be I don't know let's continue looking into the story and seeing if we can learn some more about all of this Miami Herald wrote kind of a good synopsis on what's going on in this case so I just want to start with that a police officer responds to a call of a woman doing drugs in a parking lot when he tells her to shut off the car she takes off a four-mile low-speed chase ensues it ends when a police car bumps her vehicle spinning it to a stop with one police car sitting nose-to-nose another on her passenger side a utility pole behind her a ditch on her left and all four tires gone small has nowhere to go still she shifts into reverse and then forward banging uselessly against the utility pole and the patrol car police yell at her to get out instead she tries again back against the pole forward bumping the car and sergeant Cory Sasser and officer Todd Simpson opened fire tattooing her windshield with 45 caliber rounds afterward they discussed their Markman ship I hit her right in the face right on the bridge of the nose says Sasser Simpson waves off a former EMT who approaches to render aid she's dead I shot her in the head her head exploded small actually died seven days later Sasser and Simpson were cleared of wrongdoing by a grand jury and by internal affairs a civil suit was dismissed and that is the very basic bones of this story but that's not nearly enough to try to come to some determination of what the truth is here I also have to say in the video footage that I have first of all it's very hard with the audio to make out what anyone is saying the only thing that I can clearly hear is them yelling at her to get out of the car she's obviously not complying with getting out of the car but I really can't make out any of the other dialogue from what I understand the original dashcam footage is about thirty minutes long and that clip that I played for you guys I think is only three minutes just a little over three minutes on its total length so it could be that these quotes that we're hearing from the officers are from the extended footage I don't know if that's been released anywhere I haven't bumped into that version so if you do or if if you know where it is please be sure to drop it in the comment box and let the rest of us know so we can take a look at that also however from what I've seen no one really disputes that this is what they said so I haven't seen anyone come back and say you know the officers never said that so I don't think that that is necessarily in dispute but I just have not seen a good source to really confirm that my AJC the Atlanta journal-constitution I believe is the name of the paper did a really good write-up on this and it actually set a lot of new things in motion it is a long-form write-up obviously I can't go through the whole thing here but we are going to pick out some points that they made I just wanted to share with you guys the case is one of at least 150 fatal police shootings in Georgia since 2010 small who died a week after the shooting never regained consciousness to tell her side of what happened she had struggled for years with drug and alcohol addiction as well as mental health problems from what I understand her family actually took her off life support after seven days of her being in the hospital so that is ultimately how she died but obviously she was in that condition as a result of multiple gunshot wounds from this encounter her divorce had finalized just days before the shooting her ex-husband keep small said he loved his wife and remembers her as a caring mother to their daughter Annalise who was three when her mother was killed and she also had an older daughter from a previous relationship his wife had relapsed in the months leading up to the shooting and Baden diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and disassociative disorder he believes her mental health issues played into her actions the day of the chase she needed help from police he said not to be shot this is another thing that is not in dispute in dispute this is a woman that was struggling she apparently was kicked out of a halfway house just two days prior to this because they found that she had a crack pipe in her items there's some question I've seen reports kind of both ways in terms of was she really doing drugs when she was sitting in the parking lot the police officer says when he walked up it looked like she was picking at the passenger seat like maybe trying to get some I don't know crumbs of drugs or something that might have spilled over but then I've seen other reports that say she wasn't even actually using drugs I do see reports that say she had a half empty bottle of vodka in the car with her as well so I think it's pretty clear that she was under the influence I believe the toxicology actually came back and noted alcohol as well as cocaine being in her system so it's already a tough case because there's so many so many aspects that are working together to make this horrible situation but she wasn't just a junkie her ex-husband's small said she was a mom she was a college student she loved painting she loved to read I do want more people to understand that she just wasn't some horrible person running away from the police because that's not who she was at all and here we can see a close-up of the window with the gunshots in it if there is only one article that you read on this case make it this article this article is extremely well done it has most of the major story points in it and her family even noted that this article gave them information that they had no idea about in terms of what happened to Caroline in terms of this event and it actually spun them it moved them into starting a whole effort to try to get this case looked into again and why did they have to do that well here is another article from my AJC calm this was a murder and it was covered up according to exclaimed prosecutor former das say their boss breached ethics mishandled fatal police shooting of Caroline's small what essentially happened was he had an acting da that went to the police station heard about this tape said you know he really usually supports officer-involved shootings watched the tape and apparently was sickened by it almost immediately on the spot he had made some public comments that he was going to seek justice in this case but then he was only the Acting da all of a sudden someone came in that ran for da was helped by police chief matt dormer I believe is his name we'll see a little bit more about him later and won the position as soon as she becomes the DA she takes this case away from the Acting da that was working it fires him two days later there is actually multiple employees that come out in this article either saying they were either intimidated if they brought up this case with her and in some cases other people had been fired as well let's get back to this article Brunswick District Attorney Jackie Johnson she's the new one fired one prosecutor for his outspoken determination to prosecute the 2010 shooting and she excluded the others who best knew the evidence the case languished for a year before Robert C Sasser and Michael T Simpson were cleared by a civil grand jury in 2011 amid a series of questionable and irregular legal maneuvers Sasser and Simpson remain in law enforcement today we have a little update on one of them that we'll get to later Johnson gave the officers the case file almost two months before the grand jury met and allowed defense attorneys to cross-examine witnesses in the grand jury room unprecedented actions in Georgia grand jury procedures the former Brunswick prosecutor says Johnson's actions violated prosecutorial ethics and betrayed her duty to uphold justice they also say that Johnson had a conflict of interest because she was concerned about damaging her relationship with the Glynn County Police Department where the chief actually helped her win this election essentially and should have disqualified herself from any involvement with the case I think it's also worth noting she delayed the processing of this case by a year I believe under the guise that she needed to get acquainted with the case herself once she had taken it over from the people that were already familiar and involved with it the GBI agent who supervised the investigation in 2010 told the AJC in July that Carolyn smalls killing was the worst police shooting he had investigated in two decades of work and the GBI the Georgia Bureau of Investigation was actually brought onto the case by Blinn County the police department they actually asked the GBI I guess as a normal course of procedure any time there's an officer-involved shooting they ask the GBI to come and and investigate review the area there was a lot of conflicts going on between the two part the two departments as soon as the GBI showed up the GBI notes it the police officers also noted there's criticism about the GBI how they were investigating that they had a technician that was crawling on the hood of the car because he was looking at the bullet patterns and they were saying that he was damaging a crime scene by crawling on the hood of the car so just a lot of back-and-forth here and ultimately this would turn out to have a bunch of changes in terms of how the GBI works with police departments when they're investigating where they now have these procedures in place where basically the police department has to move off if they want the GBI to investigate they have no place this is not a co investigation that happens in cases like this G bi is supposed to be able to independently investigate now without interference by the police department as it's going on Johnson for her part has refused to discuss the case and has declined interview requests I do not want my words used out of context to compound the tragic nature of this case Johnson wrote to the AJC November 12th I respect the Glynn County grand jury's findings that the officers acted lawfully even though there's a lot of question in terms of how she handled that grand jury and that whole process Glynn County Police Chief Matt doering was working behind the scenes to help Johnson reach her political goals this is where we get into a bit of a conflict of interest Johnson announced her intention to run for the DA's job on June 21st three days after small was shot within hours of the afternoon shooting Diller ring told local brunswick media that the officer is feared for their lives and had no choice but to fire a version the officers themselves claimed as the case unfolded so as you can see we have multiple levels of issue going on with this case at the initial level we have the shooting did it really have to happen did those officers truly feel like their lives were at risk we then have another level where the GBI comes in their investigation is being questioned their outcome is very plain you can find comment after comment from people that were working for the GBI saying they thought that this this shooting did not have to happen then you get to this judicial level of issue around here where you have an acting DA that is basically booted out by someone that comes in to get the job only days after this shooting had happened the person gets that job with help from the Glynn County police chief Matt doering who is essentially sending letters to people trying to get her elected she does get elected she does some strange things in terms of how the grand jury works she gives them she gives them case information that quite typically they wouldn't typically have at that part there is a time where if it went to a full-blown trial where they would be sharing that information but at this point when the charges aren't even being given yet that certainly wouldn't be happening she also hides a document that she writes where she is effectively listing the charges that they are standing up against to the grand jury that never gets presented to the grand jury the people never hear about those charges and they vote to let these people go you can also find interviews from people that were on the grand jury at that time saying we did wrong we we helped this effectively a murder occur by not making the right decision in the grand jury but we weren't given all the information properly and you also have this DA making a little bit of a backroom deal with the police officers getting them to sign a concession on some of their rights and in order saying that I won't present these charges to the grand jury just quite honestly a lot of nonsense and if you look into some other commentary around this a lot of people are very critical of the grand jury process in general some people believe that a DA that is smart enough can pretty much get any outcome that they want in some of these grand jury trials but that is just commentary however I have seen a lot of it and not just in terms of Georgia's grand child grand jury process all right heading over to Jacksonville calm let's get a little bit of backstory on these officers histories it wasn't the first time Sasser had shot a suspect in the line of duty as a matter of fact there's some scary I don't think it's coincidence there's a pattern it seems like here with this guy on January 26 2005 Sasser shot a convicted drug dealer whom an internal investigation showed was trying to run down Sasser before jumping out of the way Sasser who joined the department in 2001 fired three bullets into the man's car one through the front windshield and two through the open driver's window Sasser wounded the man in the upper right shoulder and forearm the man later was sentenced to 10 years in prison after he pleaded guilty to aggravated assault on a peace officer in his 15 years on the force Simpson had never before fired his gun in the line of duty so is one of these guys more aggressive than the other could one have instigated the other to shoot once he started firing I haven't seen any real analysis on the pattern of shots in terms of who fired first but there is a comment that was made by one of them I need to find it yeah I found the quote here I'm back on the long article that I had mentioned which by the way I'll put at the top of the sources in the description box below so you could read through this if you'd like when she was pulling back and forth two officers stood their ground near their cars guns drawn quote if she moves the car I'm going to shoot her an officer yelled now once again I can't really tell from the audio on that YouTube video I can't hear this in particular I do hear that there is conversational dialogue that's going in around an officer that keeps yelling get out of the car get out of the car once again I have to say no one is disputing that an officer yelled this I'm not sure which officer yelled this but the problem I have with this comment is when I think of imminent danger where an officer should pull their weapon and/or shoot at someone I'm thinking of something that is happening like in a in the blink of an eye it has to be that type of quick decision this tells me that there is some thought going on there's some analysis that's happening here this person saw what was happening came to a conclusion and had enough time to voice that conclusion before actually acting this to me this comment alone if they could prove that this actually happened and if they could hear it in that video where I couldn't quite make it out this tells me that maybe the urgency of the risk was not quite as high as these officers are alluding to some people might say that this shows some type of premeditation that he's not saying if she runs me over he's saying if she moves the car I'm going to shoot her we don't know what state this woman is in she could have been having a severe emotional breakdown she could have been having some type of medical event who knows we don't know what was going on with her perception it's interesting because you will hear if you look into this case enough you'll hear from the chief Matt doering that well there's one thing that the videotape doesn't give us and that's the perception of how the officers were feeling true but we also don't know the perception of what she was seeing and going through and feeling either and officers are supposed to be trained to be in these types of situations and to de-escalate and handle them this statement just doesn't hit me right if she moves the car I'm going to shoot her if I was truly worried about my life I might say something like you know if she comes towards me I'm going to have to shoot her I don't know just the statement here it sounds like it was premeditated premeditated in a way that I am just not all that comfortable with now I've got a little clip of video here so you can see something that was shown to the grand jury by the DA which was put together by the police department to try to demonstrate that there was a true risk to the officers going on it's a little computer animation here we go

so that is according to some people that worked for the GBI that model is completely faked and is missing a few critical points of information number one they're saying the measurements are just completely wrong number two it doesn't consider the fact that the tires were gone off of her vehicle her turning capability was severely limited you could see that she couldn't even keep it in control in the video that we watched early on she's fishtailing back and forth because it's just sliding all over the place so for you to think that you're able to be in that type of a situation and to be able to turn your car that hard when you've got no rubber on your tires doesn't seem very logical and there is some controversy that where that vehicle showed the space between those two cars there was actually another vehicle another police vehicle that was parked kind of behind those those cars so that gap was not wide open essentially meaning that from her point of view even if she would have cleared those two cars there would be nowhere for her to go because she would bump right into another police car and I think it was a Bronco supposedly that third vehicle was moved I think before even the GBI showed up so that starts becoming a question of do you now have the police department manipulating the scene to support this story that these guys thought that their lives were really at risk the other problem I have with that model is if you look at it there is one officer in particular standing by the door that if she did somehow manage to get between those two cars would have been at risk if he would have taken a few steps to his left and been on the back corner of the other car that wouldn't have been the case so you also have a question of do we have officers putting themselves in situations where they are at risk and then acting like their life is being threatened for a decision that basically they made to put themselves there you know he could have just as easily moved to the rear of the car I mean if he didn't want to risk you know part of the story is they don't know she's armed or not so maybe he didn't want to risk stepping out into the open to his left to get behind that car he could have Italy went back around his own car he would have been in cover the whole time he could have run up the right side and tried to get to her driver's side door and also keep in mind we had another officer are they trained differently or what I don't understand but we had another officer that we saw in the footage that was going around behind the pole and was practically he was probably at most 10 feet away from her door and then he pulls back away the official story as to why he's pulled back away is because he looked up and he saw two officers with their guns pointed essentially in his direction and he knew that he was in the line of fire if they started shooting if those guns weren't drawn he could have been the guide to get to the door pull her out by force if that's what it took and ended this whole thing but why if we're talking about guys that are finely trained what is going on with that whole mechanic where we have one guy that's essentially getting in the line of fire for doing something that I think would probably be the proper process which is get her out of the driver's seat so they can minimize the risk to themselves and the people around them instead you have officers shoot her effectively taking the person that has control of the vehicle out of play and then turning that vehicle into what just a random object that can go careening in any direction she could have died with her foot on the accelerator and launched in a completely different direction I just I really struggle with this I'm not seeing a finely-tuned process here if that one officer was wrong for swinging around the back trying to get to her door man it would have been great for someone to talk about that aspect but quite honestly even in the research I've done on this I have not found anyone that has raised that point who's following the right procedure there because their procedures are conflicting with each other someone is obviously wrong if it's not the guys that are shooting it's that other officer that was swinging around the back was he ever reprimanded nope not according to what I can find he wasn't and neither were the guys that did the shooting yeah sorry guys this one is just very emotional for me you know I just I hate seeing situations like this where I just I don't believe procedures either procedures are not being properly followed or those procedures are very badly designed but let's continue here back to a different article at my age a c-calm should officers shoot at unarmed suspects in cars this is talking about a different case where another man was shot in his vehicle his last name is Rogers Rogers is the fourteenth Georgian fatally shot by police in a vehicle since 2010 despite the fact he didn't have a gun or other weapon that threatened the officers according to a JC data the GBI revised its use of force policy in june to strongly discourage agents from firing into moving vehicles a few days earlier San Francisco adopted a ban on officers firing into a moving vehicle unless occupants pose a threat with some other weapon Philadelphia tightened its policy a couple years ago to restrict officers from firing into vehicles unless they are being fired upon I mean think about it in this situation the vehicle was pretty well boxed in but in a lot of these situations they take out the driver that car could go careening off into the public into businesses into homes how do you control a vehicle when you've killed the driver or incapacitated them with a gun it's just it's just not a good idea experts say firing into moving vehicles is dangerous is ineffective to stop the vehicle and poses unnecessary risks for officers and the public US Justice Department guidelines have discouraged the practice new york city was one of the first agencies to ban officers from shooting into vehicles more than four decades ago I just have to say this is another thing that drives me insane about police procedures in our country why are they so different not just from state to state but from County to County from town to town how come you have a great idea put into place 40 years ago that has not propagated through the rest of the country and been adopted by all those departments where is the overarching infrastructure to say here is the best way for us to conduct our business and let's share that with other departments so we can minimize their risk and risk to the public this country is seriously missing some some type of architecture to share proper policing procedures and good ideas and to make sure these departments are following them at least in the opinion of this guy sitting on YouTube here still many departments across Georgia and the rest of the country don't have policies or adequate training that address how to deal with suspects in cars talking about this case in particular once again if you look at that map you've got one guy that was standing in this potential risk path which could have been mitigated if he would have simply moved vehicles can move fairly quickly but when you have an older car like that I think she was in a late 80s Buick it was already a low-speed chase the whole time you know that the tires have been taken out by spike strips just where is the risk if you are just simply logical about where you place yourself in relation to that car particularly if you keep another car between you in that car you're probably pretty safe if you keep yourself outside of the front I'd say 120 degrees of the vehicle you're probably pretty safe so why wasn't there a process or a procedure in place where if they have it pinned in like that the officers would move either clockwise or counterclockwise still remaining in cover to get to a position close to the driver's side door so they could then then run their process from there of either extracting the person or subduing the person there's there's no logic in what I'm seeing in this video and if that's the proper police procedure that procedure is busted another article by my AGC which I think all of these have been written by Brad schrade this one is from February 14th just last year 2016 a Glynn County grand juror has formally asked for the Carolyn small police shooting case to be reopened calling the way it was handled by Brunswick district to turn jackiejohnson in 2011 a stain on the reputation and credibility of her office boy do i second that notion after looking into this case Frankie Booker the third penned a stinging four-page letter to Johnson on January 29th asking her to recuse her office from the case he asks for a special prosecutor to be named and for the case to be presented to a new grand jury this undermines my confidence in law enforcement and the judicial process in Glynn County Georgia Booker said if it could happen too small it could happen to me it could happen to you he said that when he sent the letter to Johnson out of a sense of duty to uphold the oath he took when he became a grand juror last fall he sent it certified mail the day after a town hall meeting but as of Friday he had not received a response from Johnson I sincerely doubt that he ever got a response from her the justice for Caroline small effort took shape last summer after the AJC channel 2 investigation that uncovered details of the case that her mother and her friends say they never knew I mentioned this a little bit at the start of the video and they do have a website here justice for Caroline we're going to look at that a bit more as we move forward but before we get to that we do have some information from March of 2016 police officer who shot Caroline small has died one of the two police officers at the center of a controversial 2010 shooting has died after a bout with brain cancer according to local media reports this is Michael Todd Simpson the police officer who supposedly this was the first time he had to use his weapon in the line of duty so he has passed away heading over to Golden Isles News demonstrators protest Carolyn small shooting at Courthouse and here we see a photo of the protesters they were led by Creighton Cowart founder of the poor minority justice Association and pastor of the Church of God Bible Way and we have a quote from Creighton that I wanted to share with you here we have an opportunity here in Brunswick to show the world to make a difference and make an example of how you hold people accountable we're not saying that law enforcement is always wrong we're saying the law enforcement is not always right those who are upholding the law should uphold the law and I can't agree more and that does not mean using the law to protect the interests of your particular division or your particular Police Department it means using the law for justice to actually serve the people which in this case there's a giant question mark for me if that has actually occurred so yes justice for Caroline calm is the webpage the family has put together for their efforts you can come here and read through the facts that they were surprised to learn about they are also quite shocked at the officers behavior in the aftermath once again with the conversation about where they had shot her stating that her head had exploded denying some medical treatment to be able to get to her immediately they go in to the fact that the GBI was impeded by the local police department and of course that the district attorney did not fully or fairly present the evidence to the grand jury and basically they're asking for a second grand jury proceeding a federal investigation of the violations into her civil rights a federal investigation of the Glynn County Police Department and their interference with investigators and a review of the actions and behaviors of the particular police officers which obviously with one of them passed away we're now talking about one person who I think I saw in an article I think just earlier this year was actually promoted to lieutenant unfortunately one of the latest updates I was able to find on this case from May 11th 2017 group suspends campaign for justice in little Georgia police shooting I'm talking about the group the justice for Caroline's small basically the website we just looked at the group's decision comes after a 20 month campaign failed to persuade governor nathan Deal Brunswick District Attorney Jackie Johnson and other officials in Georgia to assign a special prosecutor to bring the case before a new grand jury it's difficult it's hurtful said Karen McGee he smalls mother it's very disappointing and it brings up lots of hurt because this was my child that was shot it's not like we are saying we give up but there aren't any doors open right now and one of the things that I saw on their website justice for Caroline small group was they tried to do a go petition on it and it only has 679 signatures it was started August 26th of 2015 I'm going to ask all of you wonderful brain scratchers despite the fact that the family seems to be retracting from their effort right now if you guys were moved by this episode if you feel that this should be looked into more I'm not even saying that justice wasn't necessarily served I just think it wasn't given a fair shot if you believe that much please do me a favor and consider using this link below I'll have it in the description box below so you can get to it really quick and really easy you can sign this petition you don't have to sign up for an account here or anything like that let's please increase this number together you my brain scratcher audience so if nothing else we can give a message to the family of Caroline not to give up that there are we're out here and we care about this and it's a shame that this case is not getting national attention I'm amazed at the job that the local press did on this but unfortunately some of these things need to be raised to a different level and I'm in a way I'm thankful that me and you that this particular audience are the ones that are going to help spread the information about this case this case deserves to be looked at more it deserves to be talked about more tell your friends about this send the video to them let them review it for themselves there's plenty of press on this case I've got a great source of links for you down below but it's interesting for all the press that there is it ends very abruptly and there's really no I didn't bump into any articles that were international level or major news organization level I ran into small a few people in small news that were really trying to make a difference here and I don't think that that effort has truly died out yet at least in my heart I want to believe that it hasn't so once again I just have to give a very big thank you to reporter Brad Schrade and the channel 2 Action News reporter Joe D Fleischer for trying to use real journalism which is rare to see these days and they did an excellent job in terms of their research and bring this story forward but now we need other people to carry their torch and to take this story out to every corner and let people know about this it this just should not have gone down like this this is a woman that was struggling admittedly this is a woman that made a lot of bad decisions but should that have been the last day that she was awake and then eventually the end of her life I don't believe that that's true and I believe that things need to be done so stuff like this can be avoided in the future and I'm hopeful that maybe you have that amazing idea out there about how to raise attention to this or to get more people to understand or maybe you have the idea that stops this next case from happening I don't know I just I hope that you guys are motivated to think and talk about this as much as I am now motivated after looking into this and once again thank you to the brain scratcher that sent this case to me and I'm just really sorry that there are so many of these cases that we have to look at but when is someone going to hold these police departments responsible and if even beyond getting justice from individual members of the police department when is someone going to look at how all of this is working as a whole and say this is not working as a whole I don't know all right Bernie scratchers this is where I turn it over to you please be sure to share your thoughts and feelings in the comment box below once again I ask what's please be sensitive no matter what side of this conversation you're on there is always a way to express your viewpoint was still being respectful to others and the other side of the conversation and guess what that's usually the best way to actually get people to consider your point of view and sometimes at the end of that you might change their mind they might change your mind but together as people we can help try to understand this better and I really looking forward to seeing what you guys can bring to this conversation so take care everyone and I'll catch you right back here on Monday on the Lord nartz Channel

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