If the Loyalist Primarchs were the Traitors, what would happen? (Warhammer 40k/Horus Heresy Theory)

by: Tactica Imperialis

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hello everybody my goal here for tax gettin periods welcome to today's video today will be another Warhammer 40,000 Theory video originally spawned in my own head but also from a question asked by choppy tip should be the bear 1337 we've been discussing pry marks on the channel in theory videos as of late and then switching sites and choppy wonders what would happen if we take that to the extreme specifically they want to know which loyalists Primark would fill the roles of Magnus the red aunt Aryan anger on and fulgrim in following a particular chaos god if every single Primark were to switch sites so take all nine traders and make them the loyalists hit the nail oil s I make the traitors what happens now as ever I'm going to go one step further than choppy simple question I want to know which loyalists will follow a certain God but I also want to know who will be war master and of course if the new traders could actually succeed where the original ones failed so today we're flipping 30k on its head to see just what might have been let us begin well start ourselves off with choppy's question which loyalists will follow which chaos scott arbitrarily will go by ascending sacred number and start with sledneck so slow nash wants someone who seeks pleasure perfection etc etc etc and we have nine primark still currently in play and while I'd love to drag this out rule every single Primark out one by one until there was a single one left standing this one's pretty easy to fill in my opinion we're giving Sloane Ashe Willemijn of the ultramarines so why the 13th well for a start I don't think many of the other eight come even close to slasher style there's no flare or extravagance to them and in many cases they're kind of a bit bland personality wise as far as joy which one assertions overriding emotions goes you could consider Russ for his great feasts and hunts on Fenris but his brutal approach and no-nonsense battlefield strategy is not very slender she in my opinion sanguinis was an alternate if he's very pure very perfect very elegant etc but he's very sympathetic to the plight to the people or doesn't want people to suffer he never really seeks personal glory or pleasure either which brings me back to Willemijn and the ultramarines the Ultramarines a perfectionist in their own way particularly with the 40k codex a started but we have to look at them pre heresy because otherwise it makes no sense even before Gwydir minh was found on macragge xiii were prideful legion often openly competing with the other legions particularly those who actually had their pry marks to see who had achieved more and they clung tightly to their honor they also had a bit of a pension for victory markings though this was more by squad than a cross legion as was the case with the emperor's children who of course in the can entire line do serfs the nash the battlefield approach was simple with uninspiring using predefined stratagems lightning-fast tactical strikes would destroy the enemy whilst minimizing casualties amongst artists or civilians they were almost too precious to lose it they are very roundabout way it's also worth noting that their Jean seed was extremely stable despite there being no Primark around which was a bit rare further demonstrating their own purity and adding to that perfectionist 5 that we need when gulaman Dutch came on the scene a lot remains the same in terms of the approach to war but he introduced a deep-rooted respect for hierarchy and an approach to government and organization as efficient as these battlefield Stratton's they've been using in the crusade it must be noted this was not hero worship towards Kulemin simply the most efficient way of running things this would further drive the ultramarines towards the perfectionist who seek personal honours to advance themselves within the legion and another push ironically would be their strict adherence to the tenets of the Imperial truth it sounds very weird but run with me on this the problem with the 13th compared to the Emperor's children anyway was their lack of extravagance everything was very calculated very efficient far from these transcended joys and agony that /soe loves this is likely why in the Canon timeline that 3rd leaves are the ones who forced the Dark Prince though the lair blade the vulgrim hand the demon it whispering and chaplain arrows will have had a hand in it to all the ultramarines of course stood loyal but in our parallel universe of reversed fates its Gwilym in the Ultramarines fold / shoutout sanguine is for at least making me think about it though next up Nergal the lord of the case seemingly favors the resilient warriors at least if more time was anything to go on but his hatred / mere earnest of Zinj would also such as an anti-psychotic would also take nobles box so that gives us madison falcon for the tough ones and then russ corax and dawn for the anti psychics dawn could debatably be called brazilian but nowhere near the level of the other two so we're not going to put him in that category so who are we going to pick well i'm going to knock out russ here he's far too aggressive and impatient for Nergal though his joviality does kind of help his case although it's kind of tenuous vulcan was tough we don't really know about his psychic tendencies but i think he was slightly pro siker there was a flame ii type of guy in a blacksmith his approach isn't exactly Nergal because fire stops things growing back or surviving it just incinerate sin that's not no got style core axe is far too flimsy in sullen to ever end up so fing nogal plus he's super fast and sneaky which is more like zinc or sun ash so dawn or Manus it's got to be malice for me I mean the guy's legion were probably just as tough as the Deaf guard even even it's a different form of resilience their high amounts of metallics would present an awesome corrosion aesthetic personally and Manus had arms of living metal I could see it happening that Nergal quote-unquote helps Manus with his arms by infecting the things and then sending the iron hands to write a tune world so more warriors can do the same admittedly I look at Manus and I see the aesthetics behind I'm going to Nergal but his an in-service ilion's his slow methodical approach his preference for infantry combat are all swing factors sadly his stance I was like as is unknown as at least at the castle of nykeya the iron hands were either poorly or not represented at all as for why I'm not picking dawn I think he's a little bit too simply flimsy for Nergal he's tougher than corax yes but he's nowhere near the League of manners in Vulcan plus his blunt honesty and seeming humorousness though not emotional really don't suit their got while - was a bit flat his relationship with fulgrim pre heresy was a very happy one so he is capable of that sort of thing if - wasn't here i think dawn will be in with a shout but I'm giving the Gorgon to grandfather Nergal now then let's talk about corn there are two really obvious choices to put in the corn slot Lehman Russ and sanguinis the honorable mentions would be jacked icon vulcan as well as the psycho hazing corax if he wasn't such a sneaky bugger vulcan would embody a different aspect of corn to the others he's a Smith a master artisan of weaponry which corn kinda is a lot of master crafted and ornate weaponry and brass armor etc etc etc Khan was a very skilled warrior with a penchant for speed and slaughter to a degree with no real desire to rule which for corn would be pretty fitting kill stuff move on nothing else but it is really really hard not to give it to the wolf King or to the angel sanguinis probably has the strongest link with corn in the form of the red thirst and then later the black rage his imagery as a wind angel also mirrors that of the blood Thursday's winged demons he was actually called brother or something to that effect by kabandha a bloodthirster he was very honorable as a warrior which corn is and the whole blood theme is very corn eight perhaps obviously but sanguini's is a psycho of sorts I don't know if he's actually been shown using psychic powers but he certainly had a high psychic potential in fact the entire bloody angels Legion has a higher psychic potential are all very psychically linked to one another and corn would really frown upon that on top of that saying quitting is tried to cure the red thirst he didn't try to embrace it he didn't really go down that route and that could have proved an obstacle at least did we follow the canonic timeline the entire way I mean I don't know when the road says exactly broke out but it's possible that in the alternate timeline sanguinis would go down that route embrace the red thirst and go to corn Russ on the other hand is more akin to a cool headed anger on if that makes any sense a brutally powerful close combat fighter with a special power boost in this case the canis helix and his Jeanne seed as opposed to the butcher's nails Russ was also an honorable fighter had a real hatred of psychos like corn does and he had a genetic flaw that could make his Warriors murderous monsters in this case the wolfin as opposed to the death company or the red first as a bonus point Russ embodies less of the aspects of the other gods sanguinis has decent similarities with slashes we mentioned earlier and with Xena his psychic power whereas Russ is tied to Nergal and Schley Nash by means of his humor and to Nergal by his hatred of cycles which is honestly more corn thing and it's a tenuous link realistically to be honest you could probably give either of these two to corn and you'd be able to justify it pretty cleanly but I'm going to give it to Russ just because sanguinis is ties to the other gods gives them a Chaos undivided vibe while Russ fits corn more neatly and has no real complications like psychic powers etc etc I can envision the Thunder wolf juggernaut and wolf hound hybrids already finally we have zinc perhaps unsurprisingly for the changer of ways I had a really hard time working this one out the first logical step would be to mirror Magnus and pick a psycho which gives us sanguinis and corax sort of and ah I think that's actually about it now either of these two could fit here in a way sanguinis as I stated in a previous theory may end up doing a Magnus and accidentally falling to Kenya Otto's inch to cure the red first being manipulated whilst corax is preference for stealth is fitting for the subtool manipulator that is inch though he hated Saiga's so we'll be knocking him out here but we have to look beyond the psychos - in my opinion weathermen & Johnson are both also decent Fitz was inch as well as jag take on ironically but we've given Gwilym in Tuzla - so let's do the other - lion was JD withdrawn reserved etc etcetera etc he was also exposed to chaos from a very young age Caliban was stalked by various Kaos creatures there of books of chaos law such as the ones found by Luther and his first mission did involve hidden servants of some Kaos entity or another it's not stated it was inch but it could have been so it could be argued that zine had been setting Johnson up for a long time and if he had discovered those costumes on Caliban his fate could have been very very different and if you add in the highly secretive and sometimes borderline treacherous behavior the Dark Angels in more recent history you could certainly see them in the change ways his thrall if things had panned out differently now I know I said in my last video Johnson was a pretty safe loyalist primark and obviously there are a few different factors that we had to consider but I say in an alternate universe where he finds those chaos terms he could have easily been drawn in by zinc as for Khan he was very Pro psychic he's Chief Librarian was sent to the Council of my care for crying out loud the only Primarch for the cyclist was Magnus I don't know why Colin wasn't there but he sent his Chief Librarian which is pretty good the scars themselves are also rather shamanistic the storm seers their rituals that they have such as the matter of the hunt it's all quite not ritualistic but you get what I mean however Khan was not one of the more subtle pry marks with a very blunt style not a real controller manipulator so I think things could have passed them over for selection though the white scars having a preference for zinc could actually be argued so maybe that Chief Librarian will pull the scars in kind of callous type font style however if we're actually going to give a primark to zinc I'm just about going to give it to lion so the temptation to put sanguinis in is strong the reason why the first primer edges it for me is the nature of the legion Johnson himself as far as we know was not a psycho but the dark paint does have that subtle hidden style were more exposed to chaos through Caliban Plus Luther could have had an arrow bus like sway over Johnston so Luther does to Johnson what Erebus did to log are the bloody angels are a precision tool to be sure and sanguinis is the nearest reflection of - amongst these new traitors but I think they're direct close quarters style is just a little too antes inch and pro everybody else further reinforcing that chaos undivided feeling honestly you could call this one in a number of ways so you're welcome to disagree suggest your own choice but for me fuzzy its Lionel Johnson okay let's recap a bit shall we so we have Willemijn for suresh ferris manners for Nergal Lehmann Russ for corn and Lionel Johnson for zinc but who's going to be the new war master well left in play we have Vulcan sanguinis corax Khan and dawn Khan is not the rule of that as we mentioned before so he's out corax Cooper prisoner and a slave so becoming dominant over a force that behaved in such a way with enslavement etc would be pretty earth enema to his nature and so he's pretty much out cuz I don't think he had quite the leadership style that the war master would need Vulcan as well as being an extremely nice guy was very much in favor of equality self-sacrifice I think so far removed from a dominating war master of chaos as to pretty much rule him out entirely I mean he was likeable but not enough for him to ever hold sway over people Dawn wasn't exactly emotionless I mean his rage was terrifying if he was roused and he was quite a deep thinker at times but he lacked the charisma to ever hold sway over the other pry marks and legions plus again he didn't see himself as a ruler simply a conqueror and warrior this is possibly why horrors got the job in the canonic timeline when Dawn's battle record was almost as impressive and surprise surprise that leaves sanguinis this is why I kept sanguinis back basically even though he could have easily taken corns or Zenith slot Johnson and Russ also like that charisma or leadership quality required to be a war master remember Johnson actually refused the lead Imperium secundus though sanguinis hadn't shown up he'd have been forced to do so quillon wins out for the same reason and Manus I don't think Manus was quite likeable enough either sanguine is is basically the own be one of the new traders capable of being war master I mean according to Horace he should have been anyway plus as we've seen throughout the video he embodies at least three of the gods in some form or another certainly more it has more links to them than anybody else particularly corn and zenshin also Senesh finding a bond with Nergal would be more difficult although you could argue that his desire to preserve life would do that this gives him the capability of burying the mark of chaos a Senate if it existed back then and you have the perfect counter to Abaddon in as Kahlan he was the most loved and respected of all pry marks he is naturally the choice to be war master for the new traitors but can't you imagine just how incredible a corrupted sanguinis could look think asteroth the grim with a demonic twist and yeah but that raises the most important question of the wall who wins the quote unquote sanguine e'en heresy for ease realistically we're going to allow all eighteen legions and pry marks to duke it out on terror as events in the run up such as the istván events the events of Prospero the inverses of those are way way too hard to track and predict so we're just going to let all 18 of them go at it and we'll see what happens so now we arrive at Holy Terror the traitors led by the corrupted angel sanguinis launched their assault on the imperial palace that has been fortified by Percheron beau and whose defense is led by horace looper Carl who wins well the traitors compared to the old ones haven't lost a lot in terms of their hitting power the world leaders are switched for the whorfin of blood 'angels who have succumb to the red thirst the night Lords swap plays with the Raven Guard in terms of stealth troops the death guard switch for the iron hands is the resilient ones and the myriad sorcerers from the thousand some of the other leaders are now primarily drawn from the dark angels the bloody angels and debatably the ultramarines they've also gained a second outrider force in the white scars although they have lost the zealous word bearers and if they wished they could establish an indomitable fortress of their Oh oonh thanks to Dawn's Imperial fests and Vulcan salamanders always being coordinated on the ground by güell ermine and the Elektra Marines and in space by sanguinis we're going to assume that sanguinis behaves like Horace for the most part but the loyalists have changed to the palace defenses will have evolved under the iron warriors likely making use of the death guards toxins the psychic power of the thousand sons and their own mastery of machines to create trap rooms and kill zones for the traitors in Magnus the red and the thousand suns that they had the most powerful psychic outside the Emperor and the strongest Legion in terms of psychic potential assuming the bloody Angels haven't had a massive power boost because they didn't go directly disease with Horace coordinating the brutal canberra sorts of errands world leaders and the zealous word bearers Conrad cares in our Farias leading their legions in guerrilla attacks and disrupting traitor Scouts and the effortless combat prowess of both the sons of Horus and Emperor's children they still present an incredibly tough bulwark not to mention the custodes and of course the Emperor himself but would it be enough well it's really tough to say and I'm going to encourage you now to come up with your own answer and stick it in the comments but for me I think the battle Vitara would have panned out very very differently the traitors would have landed created their own Basti enjoying the initial seat leaving let's say the Imperial fist back and possibly even some salamanders to help fortify terror rather than doing what the Emperor's children did on terror and attacking the administrator this gives them a staging post from which to attack the administration etc as well as keep the pressure on the palace I believe the battle for terror would have become much more of a typical back-and-forth grinder war than simply a one-way siege that also be various espionage and scouting operations run by Curzon Farias card and corax the initial assault on the palace would have been repulsed I think thanks to some clever defenses and powerful counter-attacks particularly if the counter assault and counter espionage forces were able to get the sabotage attacks dealt with very easily the traitors would have also lost some demonic power - I couldn't find any cool that for log R to give them what you could argue Johnson would do it because Magnus wouldn't wasn't around for the traitors on cannon terror so maybe but I do think we have some problems with that so anyway the traders lose the initial assault but they're not push back off of terror I just think they fall back to that base built by Dawn Horus once said that his legion besieging the Imperial fist would be a never-ending stalemate and that makes it pretty hard to see the loyalists breaking that traitor Bastion especially if sanguine is his favor with chaos saw his and his legions power rise to or above the level of Magnus and his kin in terms of psychic power as a result if you combine a few factors I think the traitors would slowly inexorably gain the upper hand and push the loyalists back to the palace if the block leading space cuts off loyalists reinforcements and allows the traitors to resupply and they get the same access to demons sanguini's would eventually find himself in cannon Horace's position looking over the palace with victory in his grasp and this is the important bit cannon Horus was going to win if he left his shields up and I think that if cannon sent or so if there e sanguinis does the same I think the traitors will eventually win there are a couple of other facts so the swing factor number one is sanguinis choosing to engage in the battle if he does that personally anywhere the Emperor can get at him because they can find him and teleport him just as Horus did with a vengeful spirit swing factor to the traitors have to keep the rest of the impairment Bey in space or with other uprisings long enough to win on terror if the Imperium can resupply or rearm it will win through weight of numbers because the Imperial Army is a thing if those two conditions are met ie sanguinis stays hidden and out of the fighting and the traitor blockade holds I think the loyalists of start age would indeed lose though almost all of the traitor pry marks and/or sanguinis himself would die in the final battle just to get rid of the Emperor the corrupted angel could only enter the fray once the loyalists send their pry marks were dead and the Emperor stood basically alone so as to ensure that his possible defeat at the hands of his father would not stop que haces ultimate victory of course there are many many many many many many many many variables that have to go into this but I do think that in a straight 9v9 slog the sanguine e'en heresy would be won by the traitors if they could hold in space and keep their war master safe and alive until the very end so there we go my thoughts on what would happen if the roles were reversed when the pry marks turned traitor Willemijn the Senesh man is for Nergal rust for corn Johnson for zinc sanguinis the war master and if a certain amount of circumstances our math and conditions are followed through then a traitor victory how terrifying of course this is all my opinion and I'm sure many of you have your own opinions on the matter in terms of who takes what role and of course who actually wins if you do or you just want to call me a heretic please feel free to leave your thoughts in the comments as well as suggesting some other theories you'd like me to take on in future the next theory we'll be talking about demon hood someone let's a comment a while ago that really got my creative juices going and I really want to take it on for now though it's time to end thank you very much for watching the video I do hope you enjoyed it my name is Michael fat at skimpy realice and i'll see you all



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Time to turn 30k upside down; if everyone changes sides, which Primarchs are dedicated to a specific Chaos God, who becomes Warmaster, and who actually wins? More Theories: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkhBDioaXDRZhFut1OppUlKPQjGsC80sr

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